I think the level of debate here is falling.....

[Osborn F Enready]

I am growing more and more disappointed lately with Volconvo.

It seems as though the level of debate, more importantly, the criteria of what constitutes a debate, is ignored anymore.

I have seen a flourish of new "topics" started on appeals to emotion, logical fallacy, etc. while its the level of debate itself that suffers the most.

I am guilty for allowing myself to retort inappropriately, and falling down the sinkhole of illogical arguments and subjective blather back and forth, but it seems as though this is about all thats left anymore except for a rare occasion when logic and actual linked facts set the threads course for debate.

No slam on Jason, but I have noticed this trend growing much worse since Sean has left, and wondered if any of the mods are noticing this trend with me?

[Praxius]

I bet I can guess as to what thread finally triggered this, lol.

This site's main objective is to promote intelligent debate between people with contrasting ideologies.

In the rules I didn't see anywhere it stating that people here must avoid appeals to emotion, logical fallacy, etc. ~ Sometimes these contrasting ideologies are based completely around emotional appeals.... Emotions are a human trait and shouldn't be discredited..... We're not all computers or Vulcans..... If you find something wrong with what someone says, or you feel it's not rellivent to the topic at hand, then dispute it and turn it against them.....

Yet some people here can have an entire thread that's wrapped around contrasting emotional opinions on a matter, and if both want to fight their emotions at one another, it's still a debate..... it may not be a debate you feel is right, but you can leave that as a debate in itself if you like on whether it should be considdered a debate or not.

I agree... there have been a few situations recently where I can see the problem you see where people come on with no backing for their arguments and have no logical defense for their side of an argument.... but I'll either just ignore it and let it die.... or I'll rip it apart and keep ripping it apart until they have lost all meaning and no longer remember what their argument was in the first place.

Eye for an eye so to speak in my method of madness.... I treat it as garbage in / garbage out.... if they want to post things that don't relate to the topic or have nothing remotely supporting their argument, then they can expect to have similar response thrown back at them until they get a clue.

If there is an over abundance of garbage and limited minded responses, I can see the problem.... but once in a while it's a nice refresher to see some people still think that way.

Who knows.... maybe you're talking about me..... *shrugs*

I took a break from here basically because I too was going down that slope you spoke of.... then I came back with my "I Don't Care Bear" attitude. I no longer try and make it a point to make others see my point of view.... I understand now some people are just lost in their own cloud of ignorance.... hell, some probably think the same about me..... like I care.... I express what makes sense to me, and if someone wants to take what I say into considderation, so much the better.... if not.... oh well.....

[Mia]

It isn't falling. It fell. It's not the Volconvo I knew and loved anymore.

[Mia]

I am growing more and more disappointed lately with Volconvo.

It seems as though the level of debate, more importantly, the criteria of what constitutes a debate, is ignored anymore.

I have seen a flourish of new "topics" started on appeals to emotion, logical fallacy, etc. while its the level of debate itself that suffers the most.

I am guilty for allowing myself to retort inappropriately, and falling down the sinkhole of illogical arguments and subjective blather back and forth, but it seems as though this is about all thats left anymore except for a rare occasion when logic and actual linked facts set the threads course for debate.

No slam on Jason, but I have noticed this trend growing much worse since Sean has left, and wondered if any of the mods are noticing this trend with me?

Everything you said is true. I asked several times for a return to actually going by the debate rules we used to and no one was interested, I guess, so this is the result.

We're not debating anymore - it's a discussion forum now.

[Chris the Chees]

Well personally I don't think the board is any different from how it was when i first joined in that respect; it had good days or even periods then and it does now.

However, if I may make a suggestion Mia and Os, if you don't like how some threads are started perhaps as participants we could make a conserted effort and attempt to steer the courses of the threads in a direction which best suits you.

[Praxius]

Well personally I don't think the board is any different from how it was when i first joined in that respect; it had good days or even periods then and it does now.

Just to tag along with this comment, I agree.... in my past experiences in other forums, where I'd be there for 2 or 3 years, I seen the ups and downs.... some members come in with their different approaches and things sometimes get a little off tilter.... eventually they adjust, the other members adjust, both adjust, someone leaves or someone is banned.... and eventually everything kinda ends back to the way they were..... it's just the growth of any forum.....

And in those forums there would be threads such as this where some memebers would get fed up with how things changed..... but they tough it out and things do go back to normal.... just give it time and give it a guiding hand.

However, if I may make a suggestion Mia and Os, if you don't like how some threads are started perhaps as participants we could make a conserted effort and attempt to steer the courses of the threads in a direction which best suits you.

I agree with this.... which I try to do.... sure I go off on the tangent here and there, who doesn't.... but once I notice everybody starting to loose what the original topic was about, I point it out and get it back on track..... and for the most part, others will too.

[bishop]

i can't really find the time to play around here much at all these days. when i'm at work, i'm dealing with multiple projects and multiple business processes to support. and when i get home, i have to help with the baby and do all random chores. when the weekends come, i'm comatose.

and on top of that, there doesn't seem to be a hell of a lot of interesting stuff going on in the country/world lately. seems more like the same ol' crap with recycled dates.

i want to debate, but can't gather the motivation for the reasons already mentioned.

[Praxius]

i want to debate, but can't gather the motivation for the reasons already mentioned.

I think Bishop just need a group hug..... I don't think he's feeling the love anymore.....

Come'ere Big Guy.... *BIG HUG*.... Mind the junk....

[bishop]

heh.. i don't want no dude hugs.

[Mia]

OK - here's one from a female :-)

[ZNFYRH]

Maybe I'm one of the people that inspired the OP... but I'll still comment on it.

I think Osborn is right along the lines of the ease with which things can go off-topic.

I think a debate topic is like a tightrope. Each side approaches the other and the debate is like seeing who falls and who can continue.

Too often, the topic is started and someone chooses a side and starts walking the rope. Someone else comes in and thinks they are arguing the opposing side, but they aren't. They are close, but not really quite on topic.

That's where the serious problems start.

In the end, I think there are a small handful of people who are thread-killers in the sense that they don't want any debate or discussion. They just want to be acknowledged as being right and for the thread to end.

It's what happens when there is no actual standard of debate or moderation guidelines as far as keeping topics on track and relevant.

I've found that I'm participating much less now because there's not really much to contribute to many topics and not much going on in the world that is debatable that hasn't already been addressed before.

It's almost like you could take any topic and immediately know how the arguments will play out and where the point is where there can be no resolution.

[Praxius]

It's almost like you could take any topic and immediately know how the arguments will play out and where the point is where there can be no resolution.

Lol... hence a debate.... if there was an easy solution and answer, it wouldn't be a debate now would it

But yeah I too also see the outcomes, the predictable replies, the questions that were not covered in the previous post, etc.... I see it all come, but to address and cover everything to make sure this doesn't happen, it's take some very long posts.... more so then normal.... just take them as they come.

Sure you may have seen the debates in the past and talked about it before..... but since then, have there been new members who might have missed your opinion in the original thread? In those cases I usually just link the original thread and quote myself or a short point in my post and leave it at that.... if someone comes up with a new question that relates to my old post, then I jump back in refreshed.