Air Force lesbian nurse discharged, 19 years service

[italiangm]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 There is a gay guy that keeps showing up at the rec center in the locker room and keeps looking at me with the expression I would have if I were a pimple faced 13 year old boy in the girls locker room jacking myself off in front of horrified sorority girls. the most recent occurance of this gave me my best explanation of why I dont want gays in my Army: I want to shower, dress and sleep around men Im not attracted to who want to fuck me in the ass about as much as a woman would want to shower, dress and sleep around men she isnt attracted to who want to fuck her in the ass.

This speaks more to the issue of your own insecurities than it does about gays in the military. If the military wasn't scrambling for headcount, they'd screen out folks with such deficits.

[belverron]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 Exactly. Rules are rules. want the rules changed? go through the appropriate channels. if you break the rules be prepared for the consequences, and dont be a whiner. Its that simple.

On the other hand, it's much more difficult to effect change without our infiltrators. It keeps the response from being, "What? Gays aren't even trying to enlist." Anyway, you certainly won't see me giving of myself when it's not welcome. Well, except maybe blood. Rules are for stupid people.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: italiangm This speaks more to the issue of your own insecurities than it does about gays in the military. If the military wasn't scrambling for headcount, they'd screen out folks with such deficits.

insecurity? WTF? okay, annoyed=insecure? I have the same reaction when girls who weigh more than me try to jump all over my parts.

Screen out folks with such deficits? Its a deficit to not appreciate what could vaguly constitute sexual harrassment? If so, should they also screen out all the women who try to get me an Article 15 everytime a word that you cant say in a G rated movie slips out? Because that would be pretty cool...

Im not saying all gay guys are sex feinds. But just like a group of women would not want a straight man in their midsts, a bunch of straight guys dont want a gay man in their midsts. This might not apply so much to Air Force units, but in an Army infantry unit, its different, and you cant understand unless you have been there.

[Jack]

If it hadn't been for a gay man in the British government during World War ll, working with the allied forces, much of Europe, perhaps even most of the world might be under German rule today.
Alan Turing was able to break the Enigma code and that permitted allied forces to be one step ahead of the German army during the final years of the war.
Sexual persuasion has little to do with the value of a human life, and little to do with a person's contribution to their country.

[italiangm]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 insecurity? WTF? okay, annoyed=insecure? I have the same reaction when girls who weigh more than me try to jump all over my parts.

Is this the best comparison you can come up with? Or are gay men really faling all over themselves trying to "jump all over your parts"?

Quote by: bugsbunny04 Screen out folks with such deficits? Its a deficit to not appreciate what could vaguly constitute sexual harrassment? If so, should they also screen out all the women who try to get me an Article 15 everytime a word that you cant say in a G rated movie slips out? Because that would be pretty cool...

The same requirement applies to a professional office environment. The inability to clean up language in such an environment is a symptom of a lazy mind.

Quote by: bugsbunny04 Im not saying all gay guys are sex feinds. But just like a group of women would not want a straight man in their midsts, a bunch of straight guys dont want a gay man in their midsts. This might not apply so much to Air Force units, but in an Army infantry unit, its different, and you cant understand unless you have been there.

This argument is so patently ridiculous it's laughable.

First, most hetero women wouldn't care if men were present IF said men could control their sexual impulses, stop trying to prove their studliness, and stop trying to impress their buds with the number of women they score with.

Second, the gay men in your unit (of whom you're clueless about because not all of us are obvious) are controlling their impulses because they're not hitting on you. Whether they do this out of respect -- or because they don't like something about your looks or personality -- it doesn't matter.

And finally, the fact you feel "annoyed" about gay men in your unit is a great object lesson you should remember the next time you're in the presence of women you work with.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: italiangm I was an officer in the local gay and lesbian non-profit orgnization for over 3 years prior to my departure from the military. My name appeared on the articles of incorporation, readily available to the public. I spoke at a dozen public appearances during that time. I was in my first longterm gay relationship almost 2 years before my departure from the military. I brought my partner to several functions. While we didn't swap spit or grope each other, a person would have to be blind not to notice the affection we displayed toward each other. There were a few folks that didn't like me that might have turned me in as a suspected homo. This was before DADT, so witchhunts were still very popular then. Plenty of opportunity and tons of evidence. Nothing. At my security outprocessing briefing, my commander hinted that many folks thought I was gay. I told him they were correct. He sat back in his chair, laughed, called me a brazen sonofabitch, and took me to dinner in honor of my contributions to his squadron and the USAF. Hidden? LOLOLOL!!!! :)

Air Force: that explains it!:)

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Isherwood They do, Chancellor, every chance they get. It may not be officially sanctioned, but it happens every day. Maybe not the barracks showers, but the beds get shared.

We're talking about official sanction, not a violation of the regulations!

People commit murder, too: does that mean murder should be allowed?

[italiangm]

Quote by: Chancellor Air Force: that explains it!:)

Actually, the Air Force was a close second to the Navy as far as the number of gay witchhunts and discharges before DADT went. The Army and Marines were a distant third and fourth.

(...which is funny considering the sheer number of Army and Marine active duty folk that show up in gay porn. )

[Jack]

We're talking about official sanction, not a violation of the regulations! People commit murder, too: does that mean murder should be allowed?

I wasn't talking about what's officially sanctioned, I was responding to your "they do it so we should be able to do it, too" post. Gays and straights both are at an experimental stage of their lives in their early 20's. They sleep around. Co-ed barracks are common on some bases, and have been since I was in the service.
BTW-fraternization among enlisted people is not prohibited.

[bugsbunny04]

nevermind, youll never understand. you are too out of touch with your masculine side to possibly get it.

[Matt W]

Yes, bugs, and how exactly is the average US soldier different from any of the other forces that don't give a monkeys' about your orientation? Are you less tolerant? Less adaptable? I'm dying to know... :rolleyes:

[rez]

anybody dumb enough to join the army, should be allowed.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 nevermind, youll never understand. you are too out of touch with your masculine side to possibly get it.

I don't know, Bugs. My masculine side is pretty well defined and I still think you're full of shit.

[italiangm]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 nevermind, youll never understand. you are too out of touch with your masculine side to possibly get it.

No, dismissing the issue is just an excuse to continue acting like a neanderthal.

Quote by: bugsbunny04 it is a valid analogy, you just arent paying attention.

Unlike you, I have to pay attention to both straight and gay worlds.

Quote by: bugsbunny04 11Bs arent trained to work in a professional office enviornment. 11Bs are trained to be Dedicated Infantry Combat Killers

So, are you claiming you're in the middle of D.I.C.K. operations when these women complain about your foul mouth? Or is it a problem where you can't switch mental gears when you're in a more casual setting?

Quote by: bugsbunny04 In other words, IF we were castrated.

Well, the other choices are: logical, reasoning human -- or -- uncontrolled animal instinct. Which one do you identify with?

Quote by: bugsbunny04 Seriously, show me a survey where most straight women would want to share community showers and mass housing with straight men.

Women generally prefer security. If they felt secure in their environment, they'd share it. Practically every legitimate longitudinal study of human attitude and behavior report this need.

Quote by: bugsbunny04 If they are controlling their impulses I really dont care. Its when they dont control them that problems start. Thus the current policy, ie, keep it under your hat, or else.

The same problem could be said of hetero males not controlling their impulses. Contrary to popular belief, gay men don't pursue everything with a penis. I assume you don't pursue everything with breasts and a vagina. See how that works?

Quote by: bugsbunny04 I didnt say I was annoyed by having to work with them, but in the military, you dont just work together, you live together as well.

You've BEEN living with them all along. But you don't seem to get that part of the equation. You keep thinking about what might happen, except it never happens. Like Chicken Little.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: italiangm No, dismissing the issue is just an excuse to continue acting like a neanderthal.

I like being a neanderthal. It suits me. I like to drink beer and beat my chest and show off how many push ups I can do with a girl on my back AFTER I drink five pitchers. I like to be in a job that consists of being dirty, tired, and hungry, and be pushed to my physical limits, just to prove that I can. I'm loud and proud of my masculinity, and would consider it a personal failure if a woman who nobody thinks is a dyke did more pushups than me. I like to shoot guns, I like to work on cars, I like to drive fast. I like to play rugby. And yes, I like to hook up with girls.

Unlike you, I have to pay attention to both straight and gay worlds.

Okay, okay. There are straight men who could cohabitate well with women, and gay men who could cohabitate with straight men. The chances of either fitting in with an Infantry unit are pretty slim though. Not impossible, but not likely either. Why? Because we are a bunch of cavemen, thats why.

So, are you claiming you're in the middle of D.I.C.K. operations when these women complain about your foul mouth? Or is it a problem where you can't switch mental gears when you're in a more casual setting?

I'll give you an example: PT with ROTC, one of the non contracted Cadets is a girl who patently refuses to run with any sort of proper technique whatsoever. I made the comment "she runs like a girl". I wasnt serious, and it was obvious I meant she runs like a "girly" girl. All of a sudden I am chastised and given a lecture about how there are women who can out PT me and who are even better soldiers than I am. Well, while there may very well be women like that, I'll bet you a million dollars they all have proper running technique. Thankfully, being in the Infantry, my opportunities to get in such trouble will be pretty darn rare.

Well, the other choices are: logical, reasoning human -- or -- uncontrolled animal instinct. Which one do you identify with?

Both. You can put on all the clothes in the mall and learn all the sophisticated words in the dictionary. When you are naked you are still an animal. This fact isnt in dispute. It was once, by the shakers, but they are all dead because they didnt bother to procreate, so its not anymore.

Women generally prefer security. If they felt secure in their environment, they'd share it. Practically every legitimate longitudinal study of human attitude and behavior report this need.

You're missing the point. There are certain anatomical differences in males and females that make mass cohabitation a fundamentally flawed idea.

The same problem could be said of hetero males not controlling their impulses. Contrary to popular belief, gay men don't pursue everything with a penis. I assume you don't pursue everything with breasts and a vagina. See how that works?

Not all men are created equal. Some are celebate. Some are faithful to one wife. Some will fuck anything that walks. There are some gay guys that I probably wouldnt care if they lived in the same barracks as me. The Infantry lifestyle probably isnt for them, but I wouldnt care if they were there. On the other hand, there are some that would get a good talking to about where their eyes should and shouldnt be when I am naked.

You've BEEN living with them all along. But you don't seem to get that part of the equation. You keep thinking about what might happen, except it never happens. Like Chicken Little.

And the ones that have been there the whole time, either not, or barely noticed, they arent a problem. Im not complaining about them. Im saying that the ones who DONT control themselves shouldnt be allowed to be in the men's barracks, for the same reason that men arent allowed in the women's barracks. Which of course, they arent, such is the spirit of DADT. Control yourself or be gone.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I don't know, Bugs. My masculine side is pretty well defined and I still think you're full of shit.

Yeah, your probably right. I dont know why Im in this argument. I should probably quit while Im behind.

[Matt W]

Quote by: bugs Okay, okay. There are straight men who could cohabitate well with women, and gay men who could cohabitate with straight men. The chances of either fitting in with an Infantry unit are pretty slim though. Not impossible, but not likely either. Why? Because we are a bunch of cavemen, thats why.

As I've been saying constantly, bugs, it happens in other proffessional forces all over the globe. Why is a typical US soldier any different? Are you that much less tolerant? You can put aside racism, sexism, but not homophobia?

[Derach]

Social experiments do not belong in the military. If the rank and file support open gays in their units, they should be allowed to serve (openly), if the majority of the enlisted don't want to be serving along side open gays (as is the general consensus now), they shouldn't be forced to ... the military is no laughing matter, it's serious business, and we can't afford to be playing these lifestyle games with the business of war.

[Matt W]

It's not a social experiment, anymore, Derach. It's fact. Soldiers follow (to a certain extent) the rules regarding blacks & women - what is so different about following rules about homosexuals?

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 Yeah, your probably right. I dont know why Im in this argument. I should probably quit while Im behind.

LOL!