Trigger Happy

[tinybear]

Police: Man Killed Teen Neighbor for Walking on Lawn

Tuesday, March 21, 2006



BATAVIA, Ohio — A man who neighbors say was devoted to his meticulously kept lawn was charged with murder in the shooting of a 15-year-old boy who apparently walked across his yard.

Charles Martin called 911 on Sunday afternoon, saying calmly: "I just killed a kid."

Police, who released the call's contents, said Martin also told the dispatcher: "I've been harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up."

Larry Mugrage, whose family lived next door, was shot in the chest with a shotgun. The high school freshman was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn. He remained jailed without bond Monday. His jailers said no attorney was listed for him.

Neighbors said Martin lived alone quietly, often sitting in front of his one-story home with its neat lawn, well-trimmed shrubbery and flag pole with U.S. and Navy flags flying.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,188570,00.html

Hey folks, if he had no gun, what do you think he would have done? Built a fence, maybe?

[The Dunedan]

Or, given that he was a sociopathic madman, perhaps he'd have used a baseball-bat, or an IED, or just gotten a mean-ass pitbull. Either way, this kid would still be dead.

These appeals to emotion are useless, Tiny. The facts are on the pro-gun side of this debate, and I'm not going to waste any more of my valuable time re-hashing this with you when you have a proven and easily observable record of ignoring factual data when it doesn't suit your emotion-driven Nanny-State agenda, and then saying "I'm just a tiny bear!" when you get justly savaged for it.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Why is it that I feel sympathy for the old man? o.o

[Osborn F Enready]

I do too Chainer.....


The "innocent" KID, kept walking on THAT GUYS PROPERTY, which means he was indeed NOT innocent, just not SHOOTABLE.

The poor guy probably put up with the ignorant parents for the last 20 years, watched them spit out this kid who was generally a good kid, but as all kids, couldn't respect other people because he wasn't taught respect for his parents, much less other people. After dealing with it for many years, he probably came in after a hard days work on the lawn (his only hobby left I would bet) and here comes the kid from next door, for the 500,000th time walking right across his manicured lawn, AGAIN, after being asked, told and WARNED not too anymore.

I don't excuse the guy for shooting the kid, it was wrong. But I most certainly feel his pain, and can understand how frustration of this type gets to this point.

I have neighbors on both sides of our house, and our house sits on a lot that is 40' wide by 100' deep.
It is not much to ask for people to stay the fuck of the postage stamp sized property I have, is IT? You wouldn't think so, but just last year I was outside at 3am explaining to the FATHER of the house TWO DOORS DOWN, that he and his kids running around shooting pellet guns in my backyard at night almost cost them their lives. I heard noise outside, saw a guy creeping around with a pellet gun (which I knew was a pellet gun, but others may not have) outside the window at 3am, my first instinct is to slide the safety off the already locked and loaded .45 ACP. and go out and have a discussion about property rights with him. I get outside, and find a FATHER, his three kids, and a couple of "stay over" friends playing guns with plastic pellet pistols in the neighbors yards...... AT 3 AM!!!

I ask him exactly "What the fuck are you doing, in MY yard, at 3am playing with pellet guns?" He tells me to " relax, we are just messing around, we thought everybody was asleep." as if this made it ok to just run around willy nilly climbing fences, trampling gardens and flowerbeds, knocking over trash cans and making a general ruckus in OTHER peoples yards. THIS IS THE FATHER OF CHILDREN, teaching through example how to get shot by being an ignorant asshole with no responsibility and no respect for human error, or private property. I told him the next time he did it, not only would I press charges, but I might file a suit on him for being a bad father and get Child Services involved. (even though I despise that entity of government almost entirely, I know how well they ruin famillies so I thought I could let the governments failures work FOR me for once, instead of only costing me.)

If I had my druthers, I would have just physically "ejected" him from the premises, but in todays world that gets you a lawsuit, thousands of dollars in fines and some bullshit anger management course that tries your sanity, so instead I just show him the gun, let him know the property is "secure", and that he should learn to respect the damn property line or be willing to face the consequences.

I can't wait to get the hell out of the suburbs. Neighbors SUCK. I could write a book on my neighbors, but I won't. I have had good and bad, far more good than bad, but some bad ones make up for all the good and more.

Save the emotional crap Tiny, this was an over-reaction by the man, but brought on by the kid, and the gun played no role in the outcome except he chose it as opposed to a car, a bat, a sword, a butcher knife, or any other object that COULD be used as a weapon.

IS it more humane to be beaten to death, stabbed to death, choked to death, drowned to death, burned to death, gassed to death, than it is to be shot to death?

I have to say I would choose a nice quick bullet to any of the above, any day.

you know, in every pre-meditated murder I have ever seen someone has used their hands to do the killing, or to operate equipment or tools to do the killing. Perhaps we should make a law that requires all people have their hands sawn off, since they are used in too many killings?

[tinybear]

Quote by: The Dunedan Or, given that he was a sociopathic madman, perhaps he'd have used a baseball-bat, or an IED, or just gotten a mean-ass pitbull. Either way, this kid would still be dead. These appeals to emotion are useless, Tiny. The facts are on the pro-gun side of this debate, and I'm not going to waste any more of my valuable time re-hashing this with you when you have a proven and easily observable record of ignoring factual data when it doesn't suit your emotion-driven Nanny-State agenda, and then saying "I'm just a tiny bear!" when you get justly savaged for it.

What makes you think he's a sociopathic madman? Which medical report did you read?

[Osborn F Enready]

Because only a person on the edge of their sanity would shoot another, especially a kid, in that situation.

I didn't read ALL the reports on it yet, but it was clear that after he shot the kid, his sense took over and he called the police. Probably a nice, normal old dude, pushed and agitated too much by a young butt munch who needed a good ass whuppin, and OOOOPs, slipped. Whole life down the drain for the kid, and the rest of a life gone from the old man, all because a kid can't keep off the grass, after hes been told how many times?

R - E - S - P - E - C - T

[Allas]

I gotta agree with Osborn, Chainer, etc. It was probably just the straw that broke the camels back.

I dont think he should be jailed or anything of the sort. Certainly he needs some counseling of the more proffesional nature, but the kid broke the law. Had it been one of the parents, i would have shrugged and said "respectlessness is dangerous."


EDIT: if you watch the video, youll notice that the yard is fairly huge out of the way. At first glance, i cant imagine why the kid would have walked onto it. Maybe the old man was being harrassed.

[tinybear]

Yeah, but the point I was trying to bring out is if he hadn't got that gun in his hands, would the boy be alive today?

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: tinybear Yeah, but the point I was trying to bring out is if he hadn't got that gun in his hands, would the boy be alive today?

That question is impossible to answer.

Keith

(See, I can easily do one liners, as well. Isn't this fun?)

(Damn, now I have far more than one line, and, I don't think I'm supposed to use quotes when I type my one line. I guess it isn't so easy to do one liners after all :( )

[Osborn F Enready]

Tiny said:

Yeah, but the point I was trying to bring out is if he hadn't got that gun in his hands, would the boy be alive today?

I said::

Save the emotional crap Tiny, this was an over-reaction by the man, but brought on by the kid, and the gun played no role in the outcome except he chose it as opposed to a car, a bat, a sword, a butcher knife, or any other object that COULD be used as a weapon. IS it more humane to be beaten to death, stabbed to death, choked to death, drowned to death, burned to death, gassed to death, than it is to be shot to death?

[Osborn F Enready]

You know, this mentality really pisses me off.

Look at nature. An animal makes a nest, or a home, it RESPECTS property. The only animals that infringe another animals property, are those looking to do mischief, or those that are friendly. This is nature. The animals defend their property, to the best of their ability, sometimes death.

What is different here? The people next door had been show repeatedly this guy was serious about his rights to his property. Why did they push him? Why did they needle him?

Kids are WAY too often let off the hook on the excuse "their kids, and that's how kids are".

I would be willing to bet that if the kids PARENTS had grounded him to his room everytime they caugh him messing with the neighbor, the kid would have messed with the neighbor less. I am betting that if the parents respected the kids privacy, and property, he would have been taught a little of the value of respecting property and rights.

It's all fun and games until someone loses a life.

Respect other peoples rights, mind your business, and these things don't happen.

Take it as a lesson, brought to you by the less enlightened. Learn from THEIR mistakes.

[another day]

I can't believe how many of you are so sympathetic for this guy..Pathetic. He shot and killed another human, a 15 year old kid for NO REASON. A lawn is a goddamn lawn. So what if he was walking on it. You guys need to get your priorities straight...Saying the man shouldn't go to jail??? Disgusting!!

[another day]

I don't care if he walked on that lawn every day his whole life, it was the old man who got a frickin shot gun and killed the kid in cold blood. HE is to blame here.

[The Dunedan]

I don't see where anyone has excused this old loonie's actions.

What -has- been said is this;

That this person's ( the kid's ) continuing disrespect for his neighbor's property was enough to unhinge an already dangerously-unstable mind and cause this homicide ( for such it was ) to occur.

Nobody has excused the man's shooting of the kid, simply said that a certain set of aggravating factors finally caused this old man ( who all the neighbors said was a little loopy in the first place ) to finally go totally batshit.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: another day I can't believe how many of you are so sympathetic for this guy..Pathetic. He shot and killed another human, a 15 year old kid for NO REASON. A lawn is a goddamn lawn. So what if he was walking on it. You guys need to get your priorities straight...Saying the man shouldn't go to jail??? Disgusting!!

Calm down kid..

We're just saying that, sadly, we can relate to the old man. That's all...

But yeah, he should go to jail.

[another day]

Yeah sure you all say "First of all, I think this is wrong" then you go on listings all the reasons why his actions are totally excusable then say again "But yeah its still wrong"...Give me a break. This guys actions were not excusable at all unless your a right wing neo-con loony who sits on his redneck ranch with a shotgun in hand waiting to blast anybody that sets foot on his property. Oh and at least one of you did totally excuse his actions and say he shouldn't go to jail. Can you relate to the old man being annoyed at the kid? Yes...but if you can relate to that leading to him murdering the kid then you are severely f*cked up in the head.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: another day Yeah sure you all say "First of all, I think this is wrong" then you go on listings all the reasons why his actions are totally excusable then say again "But yeah its still wrong"...Give me a break. This guys actions were not excusable at all unless your a right wing neo-con loony who sits on his redneck ranch with a shotgun in hand waiting to blast anybody that sets foot on his property. Oh and at least one of you did totally excuse his actions and say he shouldn't go to jail. Can you relate to the old man being annoyed at the kid? Yes...but if you can relate to that leading to him murdering the kid then you are severely f*cked up in the head.

But I like the old man... : (

[Osborn F Enready]

another day said: Yeah sure you all say "First of all, I think this is wrong" then you go on listings all the reasons why his actions are totally excusable then say again "But yeah its still wrong"...Give me a break.

I say:
Dont you see the OBVIOUS point? Where was the kids body found? In the OLD MANS YARD. A silent, testament to the FACT this kid didn't have the common EXPECTED, CONSTITUTIONAL courtesy to respect his property rights. Perhaps, if they were GOOD parents, they would have noticed the neighbors obvious "fragility" of his state of mind, and FORBID the child to enter this mans lawn?

The mans rights were violated, no matter WHAT you say. On those grounds, he was right to take action, he just chose the least appropriate, and most questionably legal form of action, and NOW he will pay the price for HIS actions, just like the kid did.

Another day said: This guys actions were not excusable at all unless your a right wing neo-con loony who sits on his redneck ranch with a shotgun in hand waiting to blast anybody that sets foot on his property.

I say:
And you automatically assume guilt of the old man because he was a "kid". You neglect that he talked to the parents, WARNED the parents of his views of his property, and still the parents ALLOWED their child to walk on his lawn bringing unfortunate but obvioius problems, which unfortunately cost this child his life.

BOTH of them were irresponsible, but BOTH of them AGAINST THEIR WILL will have to pay for their actions, because they BOTH broke the law. To bad the parents just didn't teach the kid more respect for property and rights.

Another day said: Oh and at least one of you did totally excuse his actions and say he shouldn't go to jail. Can you relate to the old man being annoyed at the kid? Yes...but if you can relate to that leading to him murdering the kid then you are severely f*cked up in the head.

I say:
Because I understand that EVERYONE has a breaking point that is different, and based on situational emotions, I am severely fucked up?

I didn't excuse it, I said I UNDERSTAND how it could happen. Did you read MY story about my idiot neighbors? How about them?

Your abhorece for armed reataliation in THIS case is right, but to NOT see the guilt on the BOYS end is to be in DENIAL of facts.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: tinybear What makes you think he's a sociopathic madman? Which medical report did you read?

Well, gee, I dont know, lets start with the fact that he SHOT A FIFTEEN FOR WALKING ON HIS LAWN! People thought I was a PSYCHO because I pulled a gun on four guys with bats that wanted to thump my skull for me.

I guess its all perspective, maybe such behavior is NORMAL to you?