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samsara15 · Mar 18, 2006, 10:05 am

Can a society have laws against fornification and still call itself a free society? Or against any form of sexual activity between consenting adults? How far can a society go in restricting the sexual rights of adults and still justifiably call itself a free society?

Osborn F Enready · Mar 18, 2006, 10:49 am

I don't think they can.

Sex is between two, or more conscenting adults. What does the state, fed or anybody other than the individuals have to do with this?

samsara15 · Mar 18, 2006, 10:50 am

I would agree with you, Oz, but then we're saying no free societies exist anywhere in the world, or ever have....

jose · Mar 18, 2006, 10:57 am

What is Fornification?

Osborn F Enready · Mar 18, 2006, 11:14 am

I think he meant fornication.

Scribbler1 · Mar 18, 2006, 01:48 pm

I thought it was some kind of military sex.

jose · Mar 18, 2006, 02:27 pm

semper fi sex?

**Jack** · Mar 18, 2006, 06:59 pm

When you have a government that imagines itself blessed and led by a god and feels obliged to assure that all the citizens are obeying their god's moral code you can expect them to impose their beliefs on anything you do that touches on their concept of evil.
I'm still trying to work out how it is that many countries with high birth rates (lots of sexual activity) are by in large Catholic, one of the most repressive religions in matters sexual.

SteveA · Mar 18, 2006, 07:56 pm

I happen to come from a long line of sexually active ancestors.

We all have motivations in life and this happens to be one of them. I seriously believe that in some ways social pressures against it end up creating a greater evolutionary pressured desire for sex. Basically, someone's gotta "do it" and if you make it tougher then generally the most persistant end up being represented in the next generation.

There's a tradeoff to birth control but ultimately it's a good option to have. On one hand, yes, we likely have slower population growth because of it, but then again this is simply because fewer people actually have to have children if they don't want them or can't take care of them etc. So in the long run this trend simply reduces problems as evolutionarily (not simply genetic but social as well) future generations are more likely to have a greater conscious desire and ability to control reproduction. It's a win/win in the end but at a shorter term cost (though I know some people believe the Earth is overpopulated anyway so for them there's no tradeoff) of lower or even in some cases negative population growth. At one point in time, likely pregnancy 'just happened' and in some areas of the world this is still sort of the case. Ultimately people will be able to enjoy both sex and reproduction and have greater control over each aspect of these ... nature can sort things out without needing any additional intentionally created problems. Though pregnancy isn't the only issue (for example, sexually transmitted diseases can be a problem) but I have little fear that education of the possible hazards is enough to keep things running along smoothly. Nature's been doing her thing pretty well for a long time now and to me it seems she's the one who ultimately judges what works and what doesn't.

FFT · Mar 18, 2006, 09:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

I'm still trying to work out how it is that many countries with high birth rates (lots of sexual activity) are by in large Catholic, one of the most repressive religions in matters sexual.

The Catholic stance on birth control.

jose · Mar 19, 2006, 05:54 am

Do you guys just invent words or something? petifilia
what is that a cross between pedophilia and zoophilia? rive said
I'm not saying go out there and have sex in public (messy, dangerous, cold, and against the law )
i say,have
sex in a forest or on a beach,beside a stream, in a meadow, you´ll remember all your life its very natural.
its not really against the law in America is it?

SteveA · Mar 19, 2006, 06:53 am

Quote:

Quote by: jose

Do you guys just invent words or something? petifilia
what is that a cross between pedophilia and zoophilia? rive said
I'm not saying go out there and have sex in public (messy, dangerous, cold, and against the law )
i say,have
sex in a forest or on a beach,beside a stream, in a meadow, you´ll remember all your life its very natural.
its not really against the law in America is it?

It depends on the state/city, what sexes (and how many?) and what orifices are involved. I think some city even passed a law against some body piercings. Truly though it's probably very hard to get any jury convictions though and so I'm certain attempts to enforce these laws are very rare.

SteveA · Mar 19, 2006, 07:05 am

Of course you've got the federal law against poligamy (I don't know if this law has been enforced in decades though) but there are state laws also, though it appears these are getting shot down by the courts:

Arizona Repeals Sex Laws
Sodomy, Oral Sex, and Cohabitation are Legal

http://phoenix.about.com/cs/living/a/sexlaws01.htm

Texas and other states also have some of these laws I believe though it was also struck down recently, but I'd still recommend if any police are in your home best to stick with 'safe sex' a.k.a. missionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

Arawn-ap-Hywel · Mar 19, 2006, 08:35 am

fornication noun
extramarital sex , extramarital relations , adultery , infidelity , unfaithfulness , cuckoldry ; informal hanky-panky , a bit on the side .
(From The Oxford Paperback Thesaurus in English Dictionaries & Thesauruses)

Therefore sometimes results in Divorce & Re-Marriage.

So it would appear only married couples can fornicate

**Jack** · Mar 19, 2006, 11:53 am

Quote:

sex in a forest or on a beach,beside a stream, in a meadow, you´ll remember all your life

...especially when the Boy Scout troop comes marching past.

Scribbler1 · Mar 19, 2006, 12:33 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

...especially when the Boy Scout troop comes marching past.

Well, how ELSE are you going to get your Psychological Traumatization badge? You don't get that kind of stuff in the Den Mother's rec room, usually.

jose · Mar 20, 2006, 03:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

Quote:

Quote by: Isherwood

...especially when the Boy Scout troop comes marching past.

Well, how ELSE are you going to get your Psychological Traumatization badge? You don't get that kind of stuff in the Den Mother's rec room, usually.

what kind of values do we have when we can watch two people fighting, or even killing people and thats OK but seeing two people having sex is not OK?

grandpa · Mar 20, 2006, 03:44 pm

Quote:

Quote by: jose

what kind of values do we have when we can watch two people fighting, or even killing people and thats OK but seeing two people having sex is not OK?

That's a good question. I've often wondered why movies will edit out a lot of sexual stuff, yet it's still okay to show fist fights.

And another thing: Why edit the blood and gore in violence? Isn't it more responsible to show the consequences to violence in films and on television?

Grandpa h.

Scribbler1 · Mar 20, 2006, 07:52 pm

Quote:

Quote by: jose

what kind of values do we have when we can watch two people fighting, or even killing people and thats OK but seeing two people having sex is not OK?

I'm completely against seeing other people having sex. If I'm WATCHING it it means I'm not DOING it. Screw that!

samsara15 · Mar 21, 2006, 01:10 pm

When I was a Boy Scout, we'd sneak up and watch the couples parking in the woods in their cars. Had to be careful and be ready to run fast. Those older boys got pretty irritated sometimes.

Mar 18, 2006, 10:05 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 Ch Latour 61 Location: Maryland Posts: 638	Fornication and rights Can a society have laws against fornification and still call itself a free society? Or against any form of sexual activity between consenting adults? How far can a society go in restricting the sexual rights of adults and still justifiably call itself a free society?

Mar 18, 2006, 10:49 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I don't think they can. Sex is between two, or more conscenting adults. What does the state, fed or anybody other than the individuals have to do with this? Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Mar 18, 2006, 11:14 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I think he meant fornication. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Mar 18, 2006, 01:48 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	I thought it was some kind of military sex. Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Mar 18, 2006, 02:27 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,571	semper fi sex? Last edited by jose; Mar 18, 2006 at 03:15 pm.

Mar 18, 2006, 10:50 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 Ch Latour 61 Location: Maryland Posts: 638	I would agree with you, Oz, but then we're saying no free societies exist anywhere in the world, or ever have....

Mar 18, 2006, 10:57 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,571	What is Fornification?

Mar 18, 2006, 06:59 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 13,223	When you have a government that imagines itself blessed and led by a god and feels obliged to assure that all the citizens are obeying their god's moral code you can expect them to impose their beliefs on anything you do that touches on their concept of evil. I'm still trying to work out how it is that many countries with high birth rates (lots of sexual activity) are by in large Catholic, one of the most repressive religions in matters sexual. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Mar 18, 2006, 07:56 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
SteveA Anarcho-capitalist Posts: 1,972	I happen to come from a long line of sexually active ancestors. We all have motivations in life and this happens to be one of them. I seriously believe that in some ways social pressures against it end up creating a greater evolutionary pressured desire for sex. Basically, someone's gotta "do it" and if you make it tougher then generally the most persistant end up being represented in the next generation. There's a tradeoff to birth control but ultimately it's a good option to have. On one hand, yes, we likely have slower population growth because of it, but then again this is simply because fewer people actually have to have children if they don't want them or can't take care of them etc. So in the long run this trend simply reduces problems as evolutionarily (not simply genetic but social as well) future generations are more likely to have a greater conscious desire and ability to control reproduction. It's a win/win in the end but at a shorter term cost (though I know some people believe the Earth is overpopulated anyway so for them there's no tradeoff) of lower or even in some cases negative population growth. At one point in time, likely pregnancy 'just happened' and in some areas of the world this is still sort of the case. Ultimately people will be able to enjoy both sex and reproduction and have greater control over each aspect of these ... nature can sort things out without needing any additional intentionally created problems. Though pregnancy isn't the only issue (for example, sexually transmitted diseases can be a problem) but I have little fear that education of the possible hazards is enough to keep things running along smoothly. Nature's been doing her thing pretty well for a long time now and to me it seems she's the one who ultimately judges what works and what doesn't. Freedom - are you man enough to handle it? If so, join us in New Hampshire! The Free State Project ("Liberty in our lifetime!") www.freestateproject.com Last edited by SteveA; Mar 18, 2006 at 07:58 pm.

Mar 19, 2006, 05:54 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,571	Do you guys just invent words or something? petifilia what is that a cross between pedophilia and zoophilia? rive said I'm not saying go out there and have sex in public (messy, dangerous, cold, and against the law ) i say,have sex in a forest or on a beach,beside a stream, in a meadow, you´ll remember all your life its very natural. its not really against the law in America is it?

Mar 19, 2006, 07:05 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
SteveA Anarcho-capitalist Posts: 1,972	Of course you've got the federal law against poligamy (I don't know if this law has been enforced in decades though) but there are state laws also, though it appears these are getting shot down by the courts: Arizona Repeals Sex Laws Sodomy, Oral Sex, and Cohabitation are Legal http://phoenix.about.com/cs/living/a/sexlaws01.htm Texas and other states also have some of these laws I believe though it was also struck down recently, but I'd still recommend if any police are in your home best to stick with 'safe sex' a.k.a. missionary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law Freedom - are you man enough to handle it? If so, join us in New Hampshire! The Free State Project ("Liberty in our lifetime!") www.freestateproject.com

Mar 19, 2006, 08:35 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Arawn-ap-Hywel Hot Lava Posts: 1,124	fornication noun extramarital sex , extramarital relations , adultery , infidelity , unfaithfulness , cuckoldry ; informal hanky-panky , a bit on the side . (From The Oxford Paperback Thesaurus in English Dictionaries & Thesauruses) Therefore sometimes results in Divorce & Re-Marriage. So it would appear only married couples can fornicate

Mar 21, 2006, 01:10 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
samsara15 Ch Latour 61 Location: Maryland Posts: 638	When I was a Boy Scout, we'd sneak up and watch the couples parking in the woods in their cars. Had to be careful and be ready to run fast. Those older boys got pretty irritated sometimes.