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Anarchist Patriot · Sep 23, 2003, 06:45 pm

I posted this article many times but I can't stress enough to everyone what kind of legal system that exists in the United States.

This is all about how law enforcement officials, in cahoots with prosecutors, mental health officialsm, politicians and the media have targeted perfectly innocent people and lowered the boom on them all.

In the 1980's a number of innocent people were charged and sometimes convicted for serious crimes involving child abuse. In one such case, a former Police Officer, Frank Fluster was convicted and remains convicted of sexually abusing children at a day-care center run by his wife, Ilena Flores-Fluster. This occurred after Ms. Flores-Fluster was coerced into giving a statement to police and prosecutors. The main force behind this conviction was none other than the former Attorney General of the United States, Janet Reno.

Reno had also prosecuted the infamous case of Bobby Fejuna case. This involved a teenager in Dade County Florida who worked at a day care center. Charged with child molestation the case went to trial. The state's attorney had no evidence in the case except coerced confessions of children.

In spite of a media barrage on young Mr. Fejuna's family, a jury found the defendent innocent.

Perhaps the most infamous witch-hunt to hit america was the attempt to convict Virginia McMartin and her son Raymond Buckey. Both of these defendents were charged with molestation at a day care center run by their family.

The initial carges were leveled after a women, who was later found to be an alcoholic and a schizophrenic, charged that her son was molested.

The times and places where these alleged crimes took place were found to be impossible as the alleged molesters were not working at those times. Police investigated this further and interviewed a number of children. When the children could not recall any incidences, the police took a more pro-active approach with the 'victums'. Using a professional victum's 'advocate', the children were led and coached into testifying on video tape. The allegations were in many cases impossible.

For instance, the children talked of being flown to Palm Springs and were molested there (no flight records could prove this), or were taken to a back room of a local meat market and abused, when no back room existed there.

In the end, only Raymond Buckey was charged and a jury split their decision and a mis-trial was declared.

Eventually Los Angeles County prosecutors realized the charges were bogus and dropped all charges.

It now seems that such witch hunts are not exclusive to the United States. In Nottingham England another bogus witch hunt has come to light. In 1987 a particularly infamous case too place known as the Broxtowe case occurred. This was particularly famous becase the files of the case were forbidden from publication

(see http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dlheb/chronolo.htm). More cases can be brought up here but they are too numerous to mention. What all these cases have in common are the following: 1) Involves children, often too young to have memories.

2) The young victums are coached to make accusations, often off camera.

3) Media publicity is given.

4) These cases involve not only accusations of sex but also witchcraft, satanism and bizzare rituals.

5) Aside from statements by children, there is little or no other evidence.

So what is the reason for all of these phoney charges and these witchhunts? One excellent explaination is given by FBI agent, Kenneth V. Lanning (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHil...62/lanning.html)

Some professionals, however, in their zeal to make american society more aware of this victimization, tend to exaggerate the problem. Presentations and literature with poorly documented or misleading claims about one in three children being sexually molested, the $5 billion child pornography industry, child slavery rings, and 50,000 stranger-abducted children are not uncommon.

The problem is bad enough; it is not necessary to exaggerate it. Professionals should cite reputable and scientific studies and note the sources of information. If they do not, when the exaggerations and distortions are discovered, their credibility and the credibility of the issue are lost.

In closing I believe that children are a precious asset. Anyone who cares about children wants to see them protected. On the other hand we need to ballance protectivism with reason. The mass hystaria which led to the deaths of so many innocent people in Salem, Mass during the 17th century has returned under a new form. We need to remember that logic and not hystaria should be the governing principal in our justice system

Section 8 · Sep 23, 2003, 08:01 pm

I already posted this in the prison inmate topic, but I'll post it again.

The main problem with the judicial system is how broken it is if you're poor and cannot afford an attorney. Here's some statistics curtosey of Stupid White Men:

In the Clinton/Gore administration the amount of inmates doubled from 1 to 2 million.

In a 23 year period (1973-1995) a study found 7 out of 10 capital sentence cases out of 4,578 had serious, reversible error.

Since 1973 95 death row inmates were fully exonerated by the court. 96 have been realesed as a result of DNA testing.

In 85% of death penalty cases the error rates are 60% or higher

Have Fun
Shalom

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Sep 23, 2003, 11:49 pm

You find a perfect system and you have found one with no humans involved...

Do you have a point?

Section 8 · Sep 23, 2003, 11:52 pm

GWB I thought it was pretty obvious, but it was to abolish the death penalty.

Fallen Angel · Sep 24, 2003, 08:42 am

Whats worse Section8, hanging an innocent man, or seeing a freed and possibly reformed nutjob wiping out a number of innocent people after his release?

G. Adams · Sep 24, 2003, 09:33 am

Killing an innocent.

If he was reformed, then why would he do something like that? In the UK, real psychopaths go into mental institutions and arn't seen for fifty years anyway, and by then they are so institutionalised they're too scared to even look at other people without permission.

In hindsight, I think I'd rather die than have that happen to me.

Fallen Angel · Sep 28, 2003, 12:19 am

It would be more merciful.

RebelWithanAK · Sep 28, 2003, 01:35 am

You're twisting the issue.

GreatWyrm of Babylon · Sep 30, 2003, 08:15 am

You are still killing an innocent if you let the guily go free. The only difference is the claim of it being indirect. But since killing has been related to murderers, it cannot be claimed to be entirely indirect.

Section 8
BTW: I was asking for your opinion, since you are simply letting an artical speak for you.

RebelWithanAK · Sep 30, 2003, 11:30 am

Motherfucker, jail time is not "letting the guilty go free" and besides, the government's already made the choice as to which side it should err - or have you forgotten "Innocent until proven guilty"?

Sep 24, 2003, 09:33 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,152	Killing an innocent. If he was reformed, then why would he do something like that? In the UK, real psychopaths go into mental institutions and arn't seen for fifty years anyway, and by then they are so institutionalised they're too scared to even look at other people without permission. In hindsight, I think I'd rather die than have that happen to me. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Sep 28, 2003, 01:35 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	You're twisting the issue. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Sep 30, 2003, 11:30 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Motherfucker, jail time is not "letting the guilty go free" and besides, the government's already made the choice as to which side it should err - or have you forgotten "Innocent until proven guilty"? . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Sep 23, 2003, 06:45 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Anarchist Patriot Molten Ash Posts: 143	I posted this article many times but I can't stress enough to everyone what kind of legal system that exists in the United States. This is all about how law enforcement officials, in cahoots with prosecutors, mental health officialsm, politicians and the media have targeted perfectly innocent people and lowered the boom on them all. In the 1980's a number of innocent people were charged and sometimes convicted for serious crimes involving child abuse. In one such case, a former Police Officer, Frank Fluster was convicted and remains convicted of sexually abusing children at a day-care center run by his wife, Ilena Flores-Fluster. This occurred after Ms. Flores-Fluster was coerced into giving a statement to police and prosecutors. The main force behind this conviction was none other than the former Attorney General of the United States, Janet Reno. Reno had also prosecuted the infamous case of Bobby Fejuna case. This involved a teenager in Dade County Florida who worked at a day care center. Charged with child molestation the case went to trial. The state's attorney had no evidence in the case except coerced confessions of children. In spite of a media barrage on young Mr. Fejuna's family, a jury found the defendent innocent. Perhaps the most infamous witch-hunt to hit america was the attempt to convict Virginia McMartin and her son Raymond Buckey. Both of these defendents were charged with molestation at a day care center run by their family. The initial carges were leveled after a women, who was later found to be an alcoholic and a schizophrenic, charged that her son was molested. The times and places where these alleged crimes took place were found to be impossible as the alleged molesters were not working at those times. Police investigated this further and interviewed a number of children. When the children could not recall any incidences, the police took a more pro-active approach with the 'victums'. Using a professional victum's 'advocate', the children were led and coached into testifying on video tape. The allegations were in many cases impossible. For instance, the children talked of being flown to Palm Springs and were molested there (no flight records could prove this), or were taken to a back room of a local meat market and abused, when no back room existed there. In the end, only Raymond Buckey was charged and a jury split their decision and a mis-trial was declared. Eventually Los Angeles County prosecutors realized the charges were bogus and dropped all charges. It now seems that such witch hunts are not exclusive to the United States. In Nottingham England another bogus witch hunt has come to light. In 1987 a particularly infamous case too place known as the Broxtowe case occurred. This was particularly famous becase the files of the case were forbidden from publication (see http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dlheb/chronolo.htm). More cases can be brought up here but they are too numerous to mention. What all these cases have in common are the following: 1) Involves children, often too young to have memories. 2) The young victums are coached to make accusations, often off camera. 3) Media publicity is given. 4) These cases involve not only accusations of sex but also witchcraft, satanism and bizzare rituals. 5) Aside from statements by children, there is little or no other evidence. So what is the reason for all of these phoney charges and these witchhunts? One excellent explaination is given by FBI agent, Kenneth V. Lanning (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHil...62/lanning.html) Some professionals, however, in their zeal to make american society more aware of this victimization, tend to exaggerate the problem. Presentations and literature with poorly documented or misleading claims about one in three children being sexually molested, the $5 billion child pornography industry, child slavery rings, and 50,000 stranger-abducted children are not uncommon. The problem is bad enough; it is not necessary to exaggerate it. Professionals should cite reputable and scientific studies and note the sources of information. If they do not, when the exaggerations and distortions are discovered, their credibility and the credibility of the issue are lost. In closing I believe that children are a precious asset. Anyone who cares about children wants to see them protected. On the other hand we need to ballance protectivism with reason. The mass hystaria which led to the deaths of so many innocent people in Salem, Mass during the 17th century has returned under a new form. We need to remember that logic and not hystaria should be the governing principal in our justice system

Sep 23, 2003, 08:01 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	I already posted this in the prison inmate topic, but I'll post it again. The main problem with the judicial system is how broken it is if you're poor and cannot afford an attorney. Here's some statistics curtosey of Stupid White Men: In the Clinton/Gore administration the amount of inmates doubled from 1 to 2 million. In a 23 year period (1973-1995) a study found 7 out of 10 capital sentence cases out of 4,578 had serious, reversible error. Since 1973 95 death row inmates were fully exonerated by the court. 96 have been realesed as a result of DNA testing. In 85% of death penalty cases the error rates are 60% or higher Have Fun Shalom

Sep 23, 2003, 11:49 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	You find a perfect system and you have found one with no humans involved... Do you have a point?

Sep 23, 2003, 11:52 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Section 8 Hot Lava Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 782	GWB I thought it was pretty obvious, but it was to abolish the death penalty.

Sep 24, 2003, 08:42 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	Whats worse Section8, hanging an innocent man, or seeing a freed and possibly reformed nutjob wiping out a number of innocent people after his release?

Sep 28, 2003, 12:19 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Fallen Angel Igneous Magma Location: Sydney,Australia. Posts: 333	It would be more merciful.

Sep 30, 2003, 08:15 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
GreatWyrm of Babylon Avatar of Tiamut Location: Dallas, Texas (Irving) Posts: 848	You are still killing an innocent if you let the guily go free. The only difference is the claim of it being indirect. But since killing has been related to murderers, it cannot be claimed to be entirely indirect. Section 8 BTW: I was asking for your opinion, since you are simply letting an artical speak for you.