The Feminist Agenda

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988).

2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radial feminist leader Sheila Cronan).

3. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."(Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily Illini," April 25, 1981.

4. The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Rage," p.67.

5. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).

6. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft." (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November 1971).

7. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole... patriarch!" (Gloria Steinhem, radical feminist leader, editor of 'MS' magazine).

8. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world."(Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times", October 10, 1989).

9. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement,solace and inspiration from real women... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," "The Humanist", July/August 1988, p.37.

10. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinhem, editor of 'MS' magazine.) Source: Center for Children's Justice in Denver, CO (Robert Muchnick - www.childrensjustice.org )

Seems to me that the feminist agenda is to completely tear down society and rebuild it in their own twisted image. The hatred revealed in these few words should bring real concerns to all. And yet, the feminist movement is gaining massive traction. Are we prepared for the enevitable result?

[belverron]

I don't think their vision is a repellant one; it's just very foreign.

[ghost_stalker]

Quote by: Seeker_Of_Sins 1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988). 2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radial feminist leader Sheila Cronan). 3. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."(Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily Illini," April 25, 1981. 4. The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Rage," p.67. 5. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman). 6. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft." (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November 1971). 7. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole... patriarch!" (Gloria Steinhem, radical feminist leader, editor of 'MS' magazine). 8. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world."(Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times", October 10, 1989). 9. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement,solace and inspiration from real women... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," "The Humanist", July/August 1988, p.37. 10. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinhem, editor of 'MS' magazine.) Source: Center for Children's Justice in Denver, CO (Robert Muchnick - www.childrensjustice.org ) Seems to me that the feminist agenda is to completely tear down society and rebuild it in their own twisted image. The hatred revealed in these few words should bring real concerns to all. And yet, the feminist movement is gaining massive traction. Are we prepared for the enevitable result?

Can you please reword that?? Its not an agenda really just a bunch of quotes that have been listed and mumbered, I dont get your point, i bet weve all seen this a thousand time or more and ill be the first to say that most if not all of these statements are true.

But what do these things mean, what actual actions are being taken??? What actions have been taken???

[Jack]

feminist agenda

You've quoted a bunch of the radical end of the Woman's Movement, and I would agree their implied agenda is extreme. I think the radical portion of nearly every movement, belief system and political party offer only extreme measures and concepts meant more to shock than be taken seriously.
But unless like some here you truly do not like women, you have to admit that some of the desires of women in our society are reasonable, practical and do-able. The extremeists want to dominate, the more numerous women in between the extremes want equality. I just can't in all intellectual honesty admit to seeing any reason women should not be equal to men in all ways in our society. As to abortion and related topics of great concern to women much more than men, I'm in the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" camp. Not a very popular opinion to have these days, but I prefer to trust women to decide their own fates without excessive input from the males.
Men really need to get over this "a baby is an equal creation of the two of us" crap. Men get to do something they enjoy anyway without protection. They give up a few million sperm in the process. And they are done. That's it...have a cigarette...take a shower...check back in 9 months to get the results. Women get to have this "thing" grow inside them for 9 months. I cannot conceive of such a thing. It's actually quite a bizarre event. If any other group of cells were to start growing inside a human, we'd have removed them long before they weighed 9 pounds. Then they get to endure the birthing process. For crying out loud, we ought to give them anything they want just as recognition for what they have to go through to create each of us. Yup, I say let them decide those issues that concern them. Listen to our concerns, but in the end, make up your own minds, girls.

[RickSp]

I did a quick Google search on the first quote you provided and sure enough found the "THE FEMINIST AGENDA" in at least a dozen sites, most looney "men's-rights" or "anti-feminist" sites.

This is the classic straw-man. It doesn't represent anything like the mainstream view point and is so over the top that is easy to knock down. Even if the quotes are accurate, an assumption I wouldn't necessarily make, they are are no more representative of "feminism" than Pat Roberston is of mainstream Christianity in America.

[Samildanach]

I think they actually had a few valid points in there. I liked point 2 and point 5.
Primarily because I think children growing up communally would to some degree mitigate a child being born under really crappy circumstances. It would also cut out the amount of welfare you would have to give single mothers etc etc as it would free them to work.
I liked point 5 (abolishment of marriage) because I believe its outdated and in direct contradiction to human nature. Humans naturally want to sleep with lots of partners until they are conditioned to do otherwise. This is the primary reason for the high divorce rate.

[Autolykos]

Taken to its most extreme, the logical conclusion of feminism would be the eradication of all human males. All remaining humans would be female, and reproduction would occur via either parthenogenesis, cloning (including the "fusion cloning" currently underway by British researchers), or both. Is there anyone out there who wants this, though? I certainly don't.

- Rob

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Isherwood You've quoted a bunch of the radical end of the Woman's Movement, and I would agree their implied agenda is extreme. I think the radical portion of nearly every movement, belief system and political party offer only extreme measures and concepts meant more to shock than be taken seriously. But unless like some here you truly do not like women, you have to admit that some of the desires of women in our society are reasonable, practical and do-able. The extremeists want to dominate, the more numerous women in between the extremes want equality.

There are many different kinds of equality, though. What kinds do you think they want? What kinds do you want them to have?

Quote by: Isherwood I just can't in all intellectual honesty admit to seeing any reason women should not be equal to men in all ways in our society.

That is impossible; taken to its logical conclusion, women would have to be men to be equal to men in all ways.

Quote by: Isherwood As to abortion and related topics of great concern to women much more than men, I'm in the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" camp. Not a very popular opinion to have these days, but I prefer to trust women to decide their own fates without excessive input from the males.

I do not want to get into the ethical/moral aspects of abortion. However, I would like to point out that a human fetus is genetically distinct from either of its parents, and thus constitutes a separate organism. As a result, the "our bodies" argument is flawed, because the fetus is not a part of a woman's body.

- Rob

[Boetie]

Quote by: Isherwood
I just can't in all intellectual honesty admit to seeing any reason women should not be equal to men in all ways in our society.



Quote by Autolykos: That is impossible; taken to its logical conclusion, women would have to be men to be equal to men in all ways

Autolykos, All you have to do is call everyone that has a penis between the legs, a woman and everyone that has a vagina between the legs, a man. Now everyone is equal.

[Athena]

Seems to me that the feminist agenda is to completely tear down society and rebuild it in their own twisted image. The hatred revealed in these few words should bring real concerns to all. And yet, the feminist movement is gaining massive traction. Are we prepared for the enevitable result?

Seeker of Sins

The hatred expressed in the quotes is equal to the hatred of men in these forums and in society in general. Maybe instead of addressing only hatred expressed by women and only the hatred expressed by men, we should address why a significant number of men and women seem to hate each other and children? I think the answer to this would go with an answer to why the US is engaged in war and why popular TV programming is human suffering. I think something has gone seriously wrong with our culture, and it might be linked to the Great Depression and world war?

How about industry that isn't family friendly? Surely this influences our lives more than a handful of women.

[Boetie]

Question by Athena: I think something has gone seriously wrong with our culture, and it might be linked to the Great Depression and world war?

I think it has more to do with mass amnesia. Before the stock market crash in 1929 life was brutal. You had men living in houses with six bathtubs made out of solid gold and men living in shantys and all the while these guys with the gold bathtubs spew out the cliche that the men in the shantys were getting a fair wage. Women could not vote, Indians didn't have the status of a person and blacks were free under a jim crow society. The movement that changed all this has now been demonized do to the successful propaganda of the right.

[Athena]

Quote by: Boetie Question by Athena: I think something has gone seriously wrong with our culture, and it might be linked to the Great Depression and world war? I think it has more to do with mass amnesia. Before the stock market crash in 1929 life was brutal. You had men living in houses with six bathtubs made out of solid gold and men living in shantys and all the while these guys with the gold bathtubs spew out the cliche that the men in the shantys were getting a fair wage. Women could not vote, Indians didn't have the status of a person and blacks were free under a jim crow society. The movement that changed all this has now been demonized do to the successful propaganda of the right.

Thanks for your perspective. I think you have made the best statement. You have demostrated what makes democracy work. It is not the smartest, put the input of the many that manifest the best understanding. We are too distant from our past.

Okay, we adopted the English model of autocracy for industry. Christianity supported autocracy in Europe, and therefore, supports it in the US. What does this have to do with feminism? Patriarchy and the enslavement of women and others for the benefit of those in power. When the US was up in arms about slavery, women in the west were protesting that their plight was over looked. It was custom to marry them off soon after they were 14 to men who were only interested in having someone do their laundry and cooking and cleaning. Anywhere at any time, poverty has might ugly conditions for women and children, and just because these married, the conditions of their slavery wasn't any better than it was for blacks.

Until the social uprising in the 1960's the whole of our society was organized to keep women dependent and at home. This was not all bad. I am in favor of women being full time homemakers. But the economic restraints did hold humanity down in negative ways.
Today the saracity of good men is so obvious! Women are no longer forced to be dependent on them, and yes, this does mean government providing welfare. But darn, is it impossible raise the standard for men and women? I mean is there anything we can do to men and women better suited for family life? I like to think the problem is most young men, but I am not sure older ones are any better. Some of the things men have said in these forums, has caused me to loose faith in men in general. The ones who impress me well, are the married ones. There are not enough of them.

[YourTokah]

Quote by: Isherwood You've quoted a bunch of the radical end of the Woman's Movement, and I would agree their implied agenda is extreme. I think the radical portion of nearly every movement, belief system and political party offer only extreme measures and concepts meant more to shock than be taken seriously. But unless like some here you truly do not like women, you have to admit that some of the desires of women in our society are reasonable, practical and do-able. The extremeists want to dominate, the more numerous women in between the extremes want equality. I just can't in all intellectual honesty admit to seeing any reason women should not be equal to men in all ways in our society. As to abortion and related topics of great concern to women much more than men, I'm in the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" camp. Not a very popular opinion to have these days, but I prefer to trust women to decide their own fates without excessive input from the males. Men really need to get over this "a baby is an equal creation of the two of us" crap. Men get to do something they enjoy anyway without protection. They give up a few million sperm in the process. And they are done. That's it...have a cigarette...take a shower...check back in 9 months to get the results. Women get to have this "thing" grow inside them for 9 months. I cannot conceive of such a thing. It's actually quite a bizarre event. If any other group of cells were to start growing inside a human, we'd have removed them long before they weighed 9 pounds. Then they get to endure the birthing process. For crying out loud, we ought to give them anything they want just as recognition for what they have to go through to create each of us. Yup, I say let them decide those issues that concern them. Listen to our concerns, but in the end, make up your own minds, girls.

I love you, Ish. Too bad I'm married and you're gay.

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Boetie Quote by Autolykos: That is impossible; taken to its logical conclusion, women would have to be men to be equal to men in all ways Autolykos, All you have to do is call everyone that has a penis between the legs, a woman and everyone that has a vagina between the legs, a man. Now everyone is equal.

All that does is change the genders' respective names. It doesn't give one what the other has.

- Rob

[Ken Carman]

We have "The Feminist Agenda," "The Neo-Con Agenda," "The Religious Right's Agenda," and just about any other "agenda" one can put a label on. Does one quote, or even a bunch of quotes mean all who might consider themselves "Feminists" have to agree or that such a quote represents a whole movement? Nonsense. ...no more than Robertson praying for Supreme Court justices to die represents all Christians.

Of course "Feminists" have been the favorite targets of abuse by pundits such as Limbaugh for so long that few call themselves "Feminists" any more. It is a strawman, or straw-woman actually, especially since the quotes are quite dated. Imagine just ten years ago when Newt and company came out for a balanced budget, limited spending and limited terms. Does that represent Conservatism today? In some cases, yes, in a lot of cases, no.

"Feminism" is now pretty much a code word for, "Here is a group of people everyone can hate." That's a shame. I know some pretty moderate women who consider themselves feminists. But the gleeful bashing has closeted them. The feminist movement is close to dead... for now.

[Seeker_Of_Sins]

Quote by: Isherwood As to abortion and related topics of great concern to women much more than men, I'm in the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" camp. Not a very popular opinion to have these days, but I prefer to trust women to decide their own fates without excessive input from the males. Men really need to get over this "a baby is an equal creation of the two of us" crap. Men get to do something they enjoy anyway without protection. They give up a few million sperm in the process. And they are done. That's it...have a cigarette...take a shower...check back in 9 months to get the results. Women get to have this "thing" grow inside them for 9 months. I cannot conceive of such a thing. It's actually quite a bizarre event. .

I disagree. The real test is when a women decides about the future of a pregnancy. In all fairness, if she wants to keep a child against the males wishes, she should accept all financial responsibility for that decision. If a woman is unwilling to accept this decision, then she should accept the decision of a male to force her to keep the child even if she doesnt want it. Then you will have true equality. Most feminist movements are all about having their cake and eating it too. I want to choose but I also want to make you responsible for my choice.

How many solo mothers do we see supported by the state that knew that the father didnt want the kid and still decided to keep it? How many men are paying for a womens choice to keep an unwanted child? It takes two to tango, how come you are prepared to accept that only one should be able to make a choice about the result? Hardly fair.

Then you have a court system that is biased towards the mother being awarded custody, irrelevant of the mothers suitability for this position.

So I disagree, the quotes I listed in my thread header gave warning of an event that was yet to come to pass. Now we see the fruits of the feminist labour. Independence without responsibility, the breakdown of the family unit which all evidence points to as the best unit for rearing and raising our children and a demand for equality as long as that equality comes on the feminist terms.

I dont see equality here, I see inequality and sexism and it is rife and is to be found in all walks of life from our schools through to our justice system.

[Protostar]

Quote by: Isherwood You've quoted a bunch of the radical end of the Woman's Movement, and I would agree their implied agenda is extreme. I think the radical portion of nearly every movement, belief system and political party offer only extreme measures and concepts meant more to shock than be taken seriously. But unless like some here you truly do not like women, you have to admit that some of the desires of women in our society are reasonable, practical and do-able. The extremeists want to dominate, the more numerous women in between the extremes want equality. I just can't in all intellectual honesty admit to seeing any reason women should not be equal to men in all ways in our society. As to abortion and related topics of great concern to women much more than men, I'm in the "Our Bodies, Ourselves" camp. Not a very popular opinion to have these days, but I prefer to trust women to decide their own fates without excessive input from the males. Men really need to get over this "a baby is an equal creation of the two of us" crap. Men get to do something they enjoy anyway without protection. They give up a few million sperm in the process. And they are done. That's it...have a cigarette...take a shower...check back in 9 months to get the results. Women get to have this "thing" grow inside them for 9 months. I cannot conceive of such a thing. It's actually quite a bizarre event. If any other group of cells were to start growing inside a human, we'd have removed them long before they weighed 9 pounds. Then they get to endure the birthing process. For crying out loud, we ought to give them anything they want just as recognition for what they have to go through to create each of us. Yup, I say let them decide those issues that concern them. Listen to our concerns, but in the end, make up your own minds, girls.

I completely disagree with your take on the abortion issue. Just because the woman carries the child, doesn't give her the right to kill it. It certainly doesn't give her sole ownership over it. Like it or not, half of the child was created by the father and he should have just a much says the mother. I love how you reduce the child to a "thing". I was not a "thing" when I was in my mother's womb. I was a growing human being. You also diminish the role men play as well. You speak as if all men just forget about the woman until she gives birth. That cannot be farther from the truth. There are a good many men who stand by their pregnant women, but they get overshadowed by the losers who leave the women high and dry. Abortion concerns men and women, because the baby was created by a WOMAN and a MAN, not just the woman. So it concerns us just as muc as it does them.

[Protostar]

Quote by: Athena How about industry that isn't family friendly? Surely this influences our lives more than a handful of women.

WHat do you mean by family friendly? If by that you mean companies aren't concerned about you wanting to start families, then no they are not. Nor should they be. Family raising is something you do on your own time, not company time.

[Jack]

Too bad I'm married and you're gay.

Ah, don't feel that way...after all, you're glad to be married and I'm glad to be gay. Nothing there to feel bad about. :)

half of the child was created by the father and he should have just a much says the mother.

He contributed half the matter that will turn into a developed egg, yes. But does he share the labor (not the 9 months, I mean the physical part)? Does he share birthing pain? Will he ever have the feeling that this child was once a part of my body? No. That's why I feel men don't contribute half to the entire childbearing process.
I don't know what women might decide about those issues, but I do feel it's their right to make those decisions.

[Protostar]

Quote by: Isherwood He contributed half the matter that will turn into a developed egg, yes. But does he share the labor (not the 9 months, I mean the physical part)? Does he share birthing pain? Will he ever have the feeling that this child was once a part of my body? No. That's why I feel men don't contribute half to the entire childbearing process. I don't know what women might decide about those issues, but I do feel it's their right to make those decisions.

It doesn't matter. Half of the child is the man's and he should get just as much say as the mother. It should not be her right to decide whether or not to destroy her own child. That is an abomination. I think Mother Teresa said it best:

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish. - Mother Teresa