I honestly do not know what the conservative principles and values are nor what liberal principles and values are. I like those who think they know, to create two columns. In the first column put conservative principles and values, and in the second liberal principles and values.
I speak controversy so we have something to talk about. Don't take me too seriously.
Other than Bob Roberts, I don't know too many conservatives who write or sing verses.
Athena, I have to commend you on trying to identify lines in the sand, but good luck.
I recently lost a friend of over 30 years, because he insisted he was a dyed in the wool democrat, no matter what I said, or anyone said. Regardless of facts, or fiction. After he proclaimed this, I challenged him to defend "HIS" position, and he nearly had a caniption.
I anxiously await some answers on this between both parties followers, if for no other purpose, to see them drive the wedge further between themselves, further proving my point.
Fire away bi-partisans......
Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm
Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/
Osborn F. Enready
Sorry to hear that. Maybe you can just let the whole thing drop and resume a perfectly good friendship. As far as I can tell this whole conservative vs. liberal thing is nothing more than politics as sports. You pick your team and root for that team no matter what. It matters not that both teams play by the same rules, play the same game, use the same strategies, share the same history and so on, it is the color of the jersey or the label placed on the team that matters. Your friend can't answer the question because for the most part there is nothing significantly different between the two.Quote by: Osborn F Enready
Athena, I have to commend you on trying to identify lines in the sand, but good luck.
I recently lost a friend of over 30 years, because he insisted he was a dyed in the wool democrat, no matter what I said, or anyone said. Regardless of facts, or fiction. After he proclaimed this, I challenged him to defend "HIS" position, and he nearly had a caniption.
I anxiously await some answers on this between both parties followers, if for no other purpose, to see them drive the wedge further between themselves, further proving my point.
Fire away bi-partisans......
Starboy
Starboy, I think we agree on this one. However, the point is to increase awareness, so I hope someone will make a clear statement about the differences. I sort of pick up a conservative is a Republican and a liberal is a Democrat, is that right? What is a Green, a Liberal, an Independent, etc? No, this labeling doesn't work very well. Specifically what are the differences between conservative and liberals?
I speak controversy so we have something to talk about. Don't take me too seriously.
Right. Conservatives are too busy fighting and winning wars to waste time singing silly songs. It's the Left who have the time to make up weak poems and whistle jingles.
I don't think so.
Democrats:
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
*! Pete St ark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft
but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
Republicans -- These are the gentlemen sending people to war:
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not! serve.< /SPAN>
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
Pundits &Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)
I speak controversy so we have something to talk about. Don't take me too seriously.
LOL, thanks Athena, I was waiting to post that in the other thread LogJam inserted his foot in his mouth.
Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm
Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/
Osborn F. Enready
Starboy said:
Your friend can't answer the question because for the most part there is nothing significantly different between the two.
I say:
That was more or less my point of the entire conversation that HE started. I am neither, yet I see flaws in both. When a person takes a stand on an ISSUE, they had better damned well be able to defend it with some logical grounds or be prepared to back peddle all the way to "gee, I guess I didn't know that". Ignorance is always understandable, but never excusable when you pick your battleground, and have no knowledge of the topics being discussed.
Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm
Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/
Osborn F. Enready
Athena, I think the answer to your question is rather simple. To find out what Conservatives believe just break out your copy of the US Constitution and read it closely. Include the Bill of Rights in your reading.
We Conservatives believe in the what the Constitution says and we believe that it means exactly what it says and nothing more. We do not believe that is a "living document" (except for some rare cases, such as the 3/5's law for non-whites).
You will find very few Conservatives who will disagree with me here. For example, there is no mention in the Constitution of a "right to privacy". It is not mentioned in the document and it therefore does not exist. Furthermore the Supreme Court should only be in a advisory position to the Congress. Their original job was to help the Legislature to not write laws that go against the axioms as stated in the Constitution. The S. Court cannot creat law. It can only overturn laws passed by the Congress that are clearly unconstitutional; nothing more.
The 2nd Ammendment means what it says. The First Ammendment means what is says and should not be extended to a "freedom of expression". It means "free speech" and nothing more.
I hope, oh lovely goddess of Athens, that I have been able to shed some light upon your question.
Sincerely,
L. Jam
Logjam said:
We Conservatives believe in the what the Constitution says and we believe that it means exactly what it says and nothing more. We do not believe that is a "living document"
I say:
That is a bald faced lie no matter how you color it if you go by the voting records champ. And those are the only way to test your "theory". Conservatives have been hand in hand in trampling the Constitution to oblivion.
If that is not the case, why did Bush continue to uphold Executive Order privlidge?
Why has he not sought to repeal all anti-constitutional laws, based on necessity of the union?
Why has he not made a stand for all rights, and not just those that suit him and his corporate minions?
Why does he seek to exclude gays as equals?
A very short list of his hypocrisy, too bad there is about three reafs more of paper full of them just since he became president.
Petition of Redress of Grievances:
http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm
Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/
Osborn F. Enready
Cool list. Did you write all of that? Or did you import it from someplace?
I served in the Marine Corps from 1964 to 1980. Then I joined the Army and served from 1980 to 1994. All or most of the Democrats whom you mentioned, supported our surrender in Vietnam and do so in Iraq today. So while they may have served in the past, and some may have served valiently; they are traitors now. Simply put, if you want us to surrender in Iraq you want the enemy to win. That's traitorous. That's sedition. That's giving aid and comfort to the enemy, which is the definition of treason as stated in the US Constitution.
As for the right wing guys who didn't serve; I don't know what their individual circumstances were. I know that when the War broke out I ran right down to the recruiter and joined the Marine Corps' officer candidate program and served as an A-4 Skyhawk attack pilot assigned to the Fleet Marine Forces.
You infur that the Liberals who served are heros and that they're service makes them above reproach.
While some may have been heros, they are certainly not above reproach. Just because one serves in the military one does not get a "buy" when it comes to politics or treason.
Anyone who believes that we should surrender in the face of the enemy during wartime is a traitor. No matter what their past is.
John Kerry was a traitor and is so today. Clinton was a traitor (what did he do in Moscow for that year after he left of Oxford anyway?). President Bush BTW: did serve all of his time. He got something like 550 hours in F-102's. He did get leave to work in a political campaign, but this was a time when the services were cutting back and he didn't have duty involving flying orders anyway. That's why BTW: he didn't get his flight physical. If you weren't on "flight skins" one didn't bother with the flight physical. Nor did Bush avoid his drills. He made up his time after he returned to his squadron. This happened ALL OF THE TIME. Democrats have studied Bush's military record with a fine toothed comb and have not been able to find anything to try him on. Believe me, if they could; they would. I suggest that you get over it.
Kerry, on the other hand, after he left Vietnam, was ordered to a reserve unit in Virginia (I think). He NEVER showed up; NEVER. He just ignored the orders. He was too busy, probably trying to indite his fellow sailors of treason. All the while giving aid and comfort to the North Vietnamese; who mentioned later on that Kerry showed them that they had a chance to win the war.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks