When Does Tolerance Stop?

[Dirty Name]

The story below talks about a school board's decision to ban ALL extracurricular clubs on the high school campus so that the school could avoid having to deal with a club called PRIDE, which stands for "Peers Rising in Diversity Education." The club had a homosexual agenda.

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news...ews/8931.shtml

I believe the school board is run by idiots. Why not just ban the PRIDE club, on the grounds that the nature of the club and the issues discussed were not appropriate?

There is a clear difference between clubs like Students Against Drunk Driving, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, KEY club, etc. The difference is that all these other clubs aren't based on the subject of human sexuality and "tolerance" of one particular form of it.

If the ACLU continues to pursue this issue, wouldn't it open the door for the Joy of Self-Loving Club, designed to teach students tolerance on such issues as masturbation, and to help rid the school of such derogatory slang terms associated with the practice?

Where does this stuff stop? Is there a point at which we in society can say, "Enough tolerance already!"

Seems to me that the concept of tolerance is similar to the concept of infinity...think of the most bizarre lifestyle choice that our society tolerates, add one more degree of depravity, and demand "tolerance."

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Dirty Name If the ACLU continues to pursue this issue, wouldn't it open the door for the Joy of Self-Loving Club, designed to teach students tolerance on such issues as masturbation, and to help rid the school of such derogatory slang terms associated with the practice?

... and what's wrong with that?

Quote by: Dirty Name Where does this stuff stop? Is there a point at which we in society can say, "Enough tolerance already!"

Sure -- I draw the line at tolerating the initiation of force.

[Mark A Shrider]

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions. --- author unknown

"To educate a man in mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society." --- T. Roosevelt

[RickSp]

A Joy of Self Loving Club might be viewed to be directly in conflict with the function of the school board.

Impressive how the school board's bias against gay kids is so extreme that they would rather cancel all clubs that give the gay kids a chance to have a club of their own.

Reminds me of the days in my home state when the local fathers would rather shut down a school than let black kids go to schools with whites. Seems about the same to me. Bigotry is so damned ugly.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Mark A Shrider Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions. --- author unknown

No, apathy is the sign of one without convictions. Tolerance is the recognition that force doesn't change anyone's mind.

[Mark A Shrider]

Quote by: RickSp A Joy of Self Loving Club might be viewed to be directly in conflict with the function of the school board. Impressive how the school board's bias against gay kids is so extreme that they would rather cancel all clubs that give the gay kids a chance to have a club of their own. Reminds me of the days in my home state when the local fathers would rather shut down a school than let black kids go to schools with whites. Seems about the same to me. Bigotry is so damned ugly.

Not quite...
Skin color is not a choice; homosexuality is.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mark A Shrider Not quite... Skin color is not a choice; homosexuality is.

That is simply wrong. Homosexuality involves the same level of choice as the color of one's eyes or skin.

Why do you traditionalists keep up with this bizarre claim? It has been widely debunked medically. Why would anyone choose to be the member of a minority so widely discriminated against? Why would anyone be crazy enough to claim that homosexuals have an 'agenda"? Or that gays would try to "recruit" straights? The religious right makes being gay sound so enticing I have to wonder whether its leadership is actually made up of deeply repressed gays. The other possiblity could be that homosexuals have taken the place in the warped minds of the fundamentalists of Satanists and witches. It is all a mystery to me.

[Protostar]

Quote by: RickSp That is simply wrong. Homosexuality involves the same level of choice as the color of one's eyes or skin. Why do you traditionalists keep up with this bizarre claim? It has been widely debunked medically. Why would anyone choose to be the member of a minority so widely discriminated against? Why would anyone be crazy enough to claim that homosexuals have an 'agenda"? Or that gays would try to "recruit" straights? The religious right makes being gay sound so enticing I have to wonder whether its leadership is actually made up of deeply repressed gays. The other possiblity could be that homosexuals have taken the place in the warped minds of the fundamentalists of Satanists and witches. It is all a mystery to me.

Actually it is a choice. Even if you have homosexual urges it is your CHOICE to act on them.
Everyone always has a choice.

[mathurin]

what people forget is that students dont have a right to free speech within the bounds of the high school, the school takes on a sort of parental role, which is why they dont have to get a warrant for a search, and other stuff, they are there to create the best learning environment overall, promoting controversial subjects is not conducive to learning, let them do it outside of the school system

[RickSp]

Quote by: Protostar Actually it is a choice. Even if you have homosexual urges it is your CHOICE to act on them. Everyone always has a choice.

Sure, just like eating is a choice. Unless you think denying your basic sexuality is natural or healthy, there is no choice involved. Most studies say that sexuality is determined by about three or four years old.

On the other hand, unlike sexuality, bigotry, like tolerance, is a choice.

[LemonButt]

I have yet to hear one reason which is even remotely logical and convincing of why homosexuality is wrong. Hetrosexuals have a choice to act on their urges and have hetrosexual sex and no one cares. A few people have homosexual relations in the privacy of their own home--harming no one--and it's the end of the world. How can we stop the hatred of minorities if we keep repressing them? All aboard the hate train.

[mathurin]

from what i have read homosexualality comes at birth, somehow the wiring of their systems gets out of whack and they get more of the opposite hormone than they should

still, i disagree with portraying homosexuality as "normal" as it is not, its a hormone disfunction from an early age, and it should be studied, to know how it ticks and to know how to detect it early, and perhaps fix it before it occurs

homosexuality is not wrong, wrong implies choice, its a condition

[belverron]

Dirty Name, do you know how happy it would make me if I could consort only with people who don't mind homosexuality? It's an attractive option; unfortunately, it's also grossly irresponsible. Homosexuals are born into all sorts of families, both tolerant and intolerant. They need all the support they can get, so I don't get to fade away from the straight side. For the same reason, high school support groups should be available if the students have the initiative to form them. No one's trying to recruit anyone, Dirty Name. We just want to cope.

Quote by: mathurin homosexuality is not wrong, wrong implies choice, its a condition

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's broken?

[Jack]

Why not just ban the PRIDE club, on the grounds that the nature of the club and the issues discussed were not appropriate?

Because gay students have as much right to organize a club as this group;

Fellowship of Christian Athletes

Some of us feel that the nature of that club and the issues discussed there are not appropriate.
I think banning all the clubs may have a positive result. Too many kids major in extra-curricular activities, while their studies suffer. Now perhaps they'll have more time to study. There's plenty of time later in life to surrender your own opinion to the group-think that typifies "clubs" like the Elks, Kiwanas, the Masons, organized religion and both political parties.

[Protostar]

Quote by: RickSp Sure, just like eating is a choice. Unless you think denying your basic sexuality is natural or healthy, there is no choice involved. Most studies say that sexuality is determined by about three or four years old. On the other hand, unlike sexuality, bigotry, like tolerance, is a choice.

Yeah, typical liberal tactic. Pull the bigotry card when someone disagrees with tolerance. I am tolerant of homosexuals (do I have a choice?) but I still don't have to agree with what they are doing, no more so than I agree with alcoholics or drug addicts and what they do.

[SteveA]

Though I think freedom and tolerance go hand in hand, this only applies to initiating aggression against someone but doesn't mean that everyone has to assist or promote different views. People should be free to work withing their natural realm to discourage some actions too.

One problem with things moving into an ever increasing public realm is that these differences become a lot more pronounced and there's less ability people have to extricate themselves from what they might feel are harmful associations.

Though I don't agree entirely, someone told me tolerance was impossible because he said it either requires tolerance of the intolerant or intolerance or it. I believe there's a difference between "getting physical" over something and merely denouncing or discouraging something within whatever realm of influence you naturally have.

But again, much of these disputes stem from areas that have become public and so you have a lot of people forced into an arena together without the natural ability to disassociate with things you feel are harmful. That's why I encourage reducing or eliminating public education (and marriage) so people are free to pursue these in various private manners with less conflict over a public standard being applied to everyone.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Protostar Actually it is a choice. Even if you have homosexual urges it is your CHOICE to act on them. Everyone always has a choice.

Sure, you can choose who you have sex with. But you can't choose your sexuality.

[Dirty Name]

That is simply wrong. Homosexuality involves the same level of choice as the color of one's eyes or skin. Why do you traditionalists keep up with this bizarre claim? It has been widely debunked medically.

Not wanting to turn this into a debate on homosexuality itself, but would like to read some "rock solid proof" that homosexuality has been proven to be purely genetic, as you seem to be claiming here.

I think you'll find that your proof has also been "widely debunked medically."

[RickSp]

Quote by: Protostar Yeah, typical liberal tactic. Pull the bigotry card when someone disagrees with tolerance.

LOL. I love it. I know you didn't mean to be funny, but... "pull the bigotry card when someone disagrees with tolerance". That is a classic.

Look up the definition of bigotry.

From dictionary.com bigotry is defined as "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ." (Emphasis added.) Bigotry and intolerance are synonyms. One might argue degree, but basically intolerance defines bigotry and vice versa.

Sheesh. I guess I should thank you for the laugh.

[Dirty Name]

Unless you think denying your basic sexuality is natural or healthy, there is no choice involved.

There are plenty of natural, sexual urgers that are unhealthy and should be denied.