Live Free or Die

[Disinterested]

What's up with New Hampshire? If I'm not living free, do I have to die? Does that mean if I'm in prison, I'm obligated to either commit suicide or have someone kill me?

[ibm]

it is a spirit, disinterested, which this country so desparately needs right now. don't take it literally.

[RickSp]

A catchy but hopelessly muddled slogan, not wholly unlike the state itself in that regard.

[Nono]

Bill Bryson, who lived in NH for some years, said it made him a trifle nervous to drive around with such an extremist exhortation written on his licence plates. He said he would prefer something a bit more moderate such as Live free if it's all the same to you thanks very much.

[Disinterested]

A New Hampshire jury once acquitted a hunter for shooting and killing his next door neighbor from his yard after mistaking her for a deer. The slain woman was wearing brown with white gardening gloves and was on all fours tending her backyard garden when the hunter standing on his own property mistook her for a deer and shot and killed her.

Because it was deer hunting season, the jury decided that the defense's argument that the woman should have known better outweighed the prosecution's argument that he should be found guilty of manslaughter and found the defendant not guilty on all counts.

yikes.

[Boetie]

live free or die

I think it's supposed to mean the same thing as, "give me liberty or give me death."

I should like merely to understand how it happens that so many men, so many villages, so many cities, suffer under the current tyrant who has no other power that the power they give him, who is able to harm them only to the extend to which they have the willingingness to bear with him, who could do them absolutely no injury unless they preferred to put with him rather than contradict him. Surely a striking situation!

Bulsh Jr lies we all suffer

[RickSp]

Quote by: Disinterested A New Hampshire jury once acquitted a hunter for shooting and killing his next door neighbor from his yard after mistaking her for a deer. The slain woman was wearing brown with white gardening gloves and was on all fours tending her backyard garden when the hunter standing on his own property mistook her for a deer and shot and killed her. Because it was deer hunting season, the jury decided that the defense's argument that the woman should have known better outweighed the prosecution's argument that he should be found guilty of manslaughter and found the defendant not guilty on all counts. yikes.

Damn, given the number of folks shot during hunting season while wearing lime green jogging suits on public roads, which are always ruled "unfortunate accidents", shooting a woman wearing brown and white seems less outrageous if only by comparison.

[Mark A Shrider]

Rome thrived when Romans thought it a wonderful thing to be Romans [. . .] it disintegrated when they no longer valued being Roman. -- Classics scholar/author Victor Davis Hanson.

The same could be said about this country. We are in the process of disintegrating as so many do not value being an American; but, rather treat it as a curse. I believe the NH motto is a personal sentiment about being American & that not living free would be the same as being dead...or they may as well be dead if they could not live free...not that they wish death upon others who are not free...or that they'd insist you commit suicide if you're not free.

--- "Give me liberty or give me death" ---

Does this quote ring a bell? Or, did they stop teaching it in school?

[Nono]

An anecdote I heard is that some guy in NH was hauled into court for taping over the slogan on his licence plates and successfully defended himself on the grounds that if that slogan doesn't mean you can tape it over, what does it mean?

[SteveA]

Quote by: Disinterested What's up with New Hampshire? If I'm not living free, do I have to die? Does that mean if I'm in prison, I'm obligated to either commit suicide or have someone kill me?

There are two ways of looking at it:

1) Either it's an attitude people had back when the country was founded. Similar to what Mark said.

2) Or it's a fact of life. If you live in slavery, you don't last long.

I prefer the second interpretation.

(BTW, NH has no state income tax, sales tax, mandatory car insurance and limited seat belt laws. State representatives earn $100/year and it's basically a part time job!!! It has the third largest representative governmental body in the world and that's for a state of around 1.2 million people. Likely you can walk down the rode and say hello to your state representative if you felt so inclined )

[Disinterested]

Quote by: Mark A Shrider Rome thrived when Romans thought it a wonderful thing to be Romans [. . .] it disintegrated when they no longer valued being Roman. -- Classics scholar/author Victor Davis Hanson. The same could be said about this country. We are in the process of disintegrating as so many do not value being an American; but, rather treat it as a curse. I believe the NH motto is a personal sentiment about being American & that not living free would be the same as being dead...or they may as well be dead if they could not live free...not that they wish death upon others who are not free...or that they'd insist you commit suicide if you're not free. --- "Give me liberty or give me death" --- Does this quote ring a bell? Or, did they stop teaching it in school?

I think they taught us that in between Washington chopping down a cherry tree and Lincoln walking twelve miles to school every day.

[Athena]

Quote by: Mark A Shrider Rome thrived when Romans thought it a wonderful thing to be Romans [. . .] it disintegrated when they no longer valued being Roman. -- Classics scholar/author Victor Davis Hanson. The same could be said about this country. We are in the process of disintegrating as so many do not value being an American; but, rather treat it as a curse. I believe the NH motto is a personal sentiment about being American & that not living free would be the same as being dead...or they may as well be dead if they could not live free...not that they wish death upon others who are not free...or that they'd insist you commit suicide if you're not free. --- "Give me liberty or give me death" --- Does this quote ring a bell? Or, did they stop teaching it in school?

The Iraqi were freer than the US citizens, so long as they did not personally offend Sadam or anyone in that family, who could shoot neighbors who look like deer without being questioned. It was also important to be an Iraqi and not a Kurd or an Iranian.

What does it mean to be an American? More specifically, to be a citizen of the US, considering Canada and several South American countries are also American. Is this being an American, like being a Christian? A distorted sense of reality and self importance?

What of Locke and our freedom? what does it mean?

[ibm]

what does freedom mean? i thought it's a simple question. as simple as "what does the sunlight mean".

in recent years i've seen freedom, along with the spirit of longing for it, is drying out if not dying out.

[Nono]

I've asked this question before on this board: In what way are Americans freer than citizens of let's say Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the countries of Western Europe (all of whom are considerably freer than Americans from the threat of death-by-armed-lunatic, to take a for-instance)?

[Disinterested]

They're all Godless and Immoral! We are an evangelical Christian righteous nation!

[SteveA]

Quote by: Nono I've asked this question before on this board: In what way are Americans freer than citizens of let's say Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the countries of Western Europe (all of whom are considerably freer than Americans from the threat of death-by-armed-lunatic, to take a for-instance)?

Well, that's more a security issue than a freedom issue but point taken on the rest of it. Maybe we have a bit freer press or slightly greater economic freedom but I agree that in many ways when you get down to nuts and bolts, the U.S. government has recently claimed the ability to effectively make people disappear without a right to trial, and it has claimed the ability to take your property if it can make a profit off it, the President has acquired the ability to effectively make his own laws, bypassing the Congress and the IRS has demonstrated the ability to come in and trash your place, as well as say you're guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent etc.

We don't need passports to travel from state to state yet, but give it a few more years.

This was quite a while ago, but a friend of mine went to visit Germany and he liked it so much there, he never came back. I can't say for certain but I'd guess that less than a third of Americans really know much outside North America.

[ibm]

steve, i was in the middle of writing a response to nono's message when i saw yours - which is basically the same of mine - so i'd omit mine.

[Nono]

Let me just say that the freedom to go about my business in a peaceful, unarmed environment is one that I deeply cherish.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Disinterested A New Hampshire jury once acquitted a hunter for shooting and killing his next door neighbor from his yard after mistaking her for a deer. The slain woman was wearing brown with white gardening gloves and was on all fours tending her backyard garden when the hunter standing on his own property mistook her for a deer and shot and killed her. Because it was deer hunting season, the jury decided that the defense's argument that the woman should have known better outweighed the prosecution's argument that he should be found guilty of manslaughter and found the defendant not guilty on all counts. yikes.

Your source for this story? Sounds like an urban legend...

[Disinterested]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Your source for this story? Sounds like an urban legend...

I got a couple of details wrong, but here's a blurb and a link to lots of other REAL stories about hunters killing people mistaking them for deer and getting off scot free:

And in 1988, a Bangor, Maine, woman, Karen Wood, was bringing the laundry in from her yard when she was shot and killed. The hunter, Donald Rogerson, said he mistook her white mittens for the tail of a deer. Rogerson was acquitted of manslaughter in 1990, but the public debate spurred Maine to pass a "target identification" law in 1991 to hold hunters accountable for itchy trigger fingers.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/berset...under_ctv.html