the origin of our country

[dthmstr254]

continued:


Tolerance is politically correct today. Intolerance is frowned upon in today's society. We are regularly besieged with subtle messages that we must keep our Christian ideas and precepts to ourselves, while at the same time making available space for all other religious and philosophic thought. But, let us evaluate some noble ideals of intolerance, such as when Justice Jay leaves absolutely no room, no tolerance whatsoever for the inclusion of other religions besides Christianity as the foundation of American government. Our fore-fathers by actual design founded a Christian Republic in America, and they purposely established it as a basis to perpetuate a Christian Order. To tolerate any other religious precepts within the framework of our governing institutions is tantamount to inviting in and giving the “god of this world” a foothold in our own house for the ultimate scheme of Satan to once again enslave us under his dominion and eradicate our freedom. Satan does not seek our submission under his domain because he hates freedom of speech, or freedom of pursuits, but because he hates the freedom we have of teaching, preaching, and sharing the Gospel!

Samuel Adams, the father of the American Revolution was a tireless patriot and un unparalleled leader in the cause of Christian liberty in our nation. He wrote the following regarding the rights of people under a Republic of Christianity: “These may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Law Giver (God) and the head of the Christian Church, which are clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.”

Adams words were intended to remind all Americans that liberty and freedom may be best defined by simply understanding the Bible. Mr. Adams believed that proper change in government must come from a thorough study of scripture, and that the prevalence of Bible education was vital to the longevity of the Christian Republic. He stated later in life; “While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued, for when they lose their righteous virtue they shall be vulnerable to surrendering their newly won liberty to the great enslaver. But if virtue and Bible knowledge continue to be diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. That is our national security”!

Adams never separated the American struggle for freedom from the struggle to perpetuate Biblical principles or from the propagation of Biblical education. He believed they went together. Is it any coincidence that the Apostle Paul concluded the same?

II Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is “liberty”.

Patrick Henry who is so famous for his fiery speech in which he proclaimed; “Give me Liberty, or give me death,” was also one of the men that was instrumental in the fashioning of our national Bill of Rights. Mr. Henry stated: “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists (other religions) but by Christians, not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!” “For this very reason, our nation has accorded the peoples of other faiths the freedom of worship”.

Thomas Jefferson stated: “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis for existence, which is a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are simply a gift of God?”

Noah Webster was another founding father, and perhaps the most active supporter of the Constitution of America. Mr. Webster stated: “The religion which has given us civil liberty is the religion of Christ, which enjoins humility and acknowledges in every person the status of having rights. Rights are bestowed upon us through genuine Christianity, and to it we owe our freedom and our free constitutions of government.” “The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to conform the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”

James Madison, who was the chief architect of the Constitution, and therefore should know something about what its intent regarding Christianity and the Bible specifically stated the following: “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of our republic upon the capacity of each and all of our citizens to govern themselves and thereby sustain our own selves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

Thus, today's Supreme Court is in direct violation and misunderstanding of the intent of the actual architect of the Constitution. Mr. Madison believed that viewing and obeying the Ten Commandments was at the very heart and foundation or our Republic! How ironic it is that the very document that the Chief Architect of the constitution called the basis for our government is today discarded from the public venue. No wonder we as Christians are left with a mere moment of silence when a mighty prayer to God is so badly needed!

America's founding father's unquestionably, and by design laid a foundation for a new nation in North America based solely upon Christianity. That fact is established, not only by their quotations, but also by a thorough examination of the research in the founding father's writings and their political science undertakings. The source the founding father's utilized most in their assessment of human political science was the Holy Bible. The founding father's quoted the Bible in approximately 34% of their political statements. Another 60% of their quotes were taken in reference from political ideals drawn from the Bible. Is it any wonder then that over 90% of the founding father's can be quoted as giving credit to the Bible as the source for which they each turned for guidance in framing our Constitution and the foundation of the Republic. The founding father's quoted the Bible 4 times more often than any other source in their speech, their writings, and in describing their intent for America.

The founding father's stipulated within the profession of national statesman the policy of a belief in future rewards and punishments for action undertaken while in political office, or in service to the nation. These early founders of the American Republic realized that their actions carried consequences for the nation. They realized that a nation, unlike an individual does not give account in the afterlife, but rather suffers or enjoys the consequences of its actions in the present, and therefore stands constantly under the mercy or the impending judgment of God.

Benjamin Franklin alluded to that fact in his remarks at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia: “I have lived sir a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proof I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. We have been assured in the sacred writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in our political building no better than the builders of Babel.”

And so it is indeed! God is supreme! He setteth up and he removeth. He plants a hedge of protection around the righteous nation, and he removes it from the unrighteous nation. His liberty comes from the fruit of wisdom! Thank God, America had some wise founding fathers!

Daniel 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Psalms 75:6-7 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

Oh yes, I know that America has back-slidden, and that our nation is parading far away from the course set by the founding fathers. I see the accusations hurled at America by its many accusers. I watch the parading enemies of liberty chanting death to America, and referring to America as the Great Satan. But, let us remember accurately that our fore- fathers had a great and abiding faith in God that brought forth a Christian nation for us to dwell in. And let us, as children of the faithful fathers never forget, that unless we have that same Faith, and that same wisdom that our fathers expressed, then we may be the generation that loses the precious gift of God's liberty!

[dthmstr254]

good luck!

[Nono]

What amazes me (...) is that no-one has mentioned the slaughter and damn right ARROGANCE of the new worlders with regards to the peoples already native to the land. It was not a country up for grabs, just because the native americans didnt have the same legal system and land ownership laws, didnt mean they could just go in there and snatch it from them , killing countless in the process! THATS is what your great country is built on, and it seems the trend continues......

Correct. It's also what most countries you could name are built on: Group A taking Group B's land. The new worlders behaved as humans have always behaved. They defeated the Indians -- who had been doing same among themselves for millennia -- because they had better firepower.

It ain't right, but there's nothing "amazing" or extraordinarily arrogant about it either.

[Disinterested]

Here's some quotes from that page:

Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the
first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus."

More Jefferson
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."

Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."

John Adams
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines
and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion
encumbered with in these days?"

Also Adams
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion."

Here's Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

"Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book
(the Bible)."

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."

And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in
pretend imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

Finally let's hear from James Madison
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

[Lilith]

Check out this link to how the founding fathers really felt about christianity and organized religious institutions in general:

http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/foundin...-xtianity.html

This article provided lots of quotes. Read it. My personal fave...""The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."-John Adams. LOL!

[Athena]

NO WAY IS THE DEMOCRACY OF AMERICA FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY.

Look at your bible. It is a book that assumes kings and slaves. True the bible does tell us to be nice to each other, but no where does it give us the model for democratic government. The model of our government comes from Athens and Rome and the native American federation of tribes that existed before we got here.

Mostly, democracy comes from the philosophers of Athens and later philosphers such as Locke, who were literate in the Greek and Roman classics. The God of democracy is reason, the controlling force of the universe, made manifest in speech. This understanding of God set Athens apart from the whole world, because it was the first time in human history that a God did not rule by whim, as does the God of bible rule by whim.
The Athenian understanding of God, placed the responsibility of government on human beings, not a God who is forgotten by everyone but the Muslims in countries where people still live as they did in the time of Jesus. Folks we do not sacrifice animals and stone women and drive people with leaporsy away, as the God of the bible told people to do. We do not have kings and slaves as the God of bible would have us do. We are at war with people who live in the past with the God of the bible. Allah is the God of Abraham.

Science is more important to democracy than the bible. It was science and democracy, that cured the evils than meant a 45 year life span and poverty. The bible lead to witch hunts and persecutions and wars. Democracy united people, extended their live expectancy and gave them a standard of live far above any that could be realized by studying the bible. Science and a God of reason and philosophy are want our democracy is about, not the jealous, revengeful, arbitary, fearsome war God of the bible who rules by whim as did all Gods before Athens God of Reason.

[Gracchus]

The United States was founded because there was a pile of money to be made selling indian land west of the Appalachians, land the British would not allow the colonists to settle. Virginia claimed land from Kentucky to the Great Lakes, on the basis that it had been surveyed by Virginian surveyors, including George Washington. The land grab didn't stop until native Americans had been as nearly exterminated as the bison, and driven onto scraps of land the white man didn't want.

The only religion relevant to this process was the religion of MONEY.

[Ken Carman]

if you think we were like the unitarians at the beginning then you need to reresearch the beliefs of the founders, maybe if i wasnt the only researcher here then maybe we would have something that makes sense. please cite where it says our beliefs were unitarians cause i dont see that anywhere in any history book, no matter the dating mechanism they use. and the puritans were the ones being burned for not following the beliefs of the Church of England.look down for the citing on the last sentence
cited in the book, "Streams of Civilization" volume two.

Do not stick your words into my computer and claim they are mine. I never claimed, "We were like the unitarians at the beginning." I told a story about my family during those times.

Like Puritans?

Yes, some.

Like Unitarians?

Yes, some.

Like the Seekers? (Roger Williams, who eventually became one.)

Some.

A lot of people came here to escape persecution and seeking the freedom to worship as they please,. including Universalists, Unitarians (although in this country I believe they mostly split off from the congregationalists) and faiths of all kind from very Fundamental to... not.

They all deserved freedom. What they shouldn't have gotten, and too often did and still do, was the "freedom" to persecute all those who didn't follow their idea of true faith, insist that all recite their prayers, or force others to shut up and have some specific brand of deity worship shoved down their pie hole.

If more Fundies came than other types I feel that doesn't matter. What matters is the freedom part; especially for those who may not have been part of the majority. If our forefathers had wanted that type of religious "freedom" their families probably wouldn't have booked passage to begin with. They would have stayed and helped harrass whomever wasn't part of the current theologically incorrect crowd.

[SteveA]

I'm so weary of the people that insist that was founded a Christian nation and should remain a Christian nation. Christianity rules and all other religions suck. Weary of it. Very weary of it. Theocrats need to be slapped. Hard!

I'm sympathetic with a lot of the religous complaint about government denying people religious freedom in many ways, but usually a comment or two later another person says we should become a Christian nation and then I have to defend non-Christians.

This is why I think government should be limited to just a few key functions and have little wiggle for special interest groups to gain anything even if they tried. (But it wouldn't matter what a piece of paper says, you can't hold back democratic forces for long ... so the only real way to keep government in check is to have some manner in which people can "opt out" if they believe things are going the wrong way. That wouldn't exactly be a "government" in the typical sense, but then again I don't think a typical government is a very great idea either)

If more Fundies came than other types I feel that doesn't matter. What matters is the freedom part; especially for those who may not have been part of the majority. If our forefathers had wanted that type of religious "freedom" their families probably wouldn't have booked passage to begin with. They would have stayed and helped harrass whomever wasn't part of the current theologically incorrect crowd.

This is exactly why our more recent focus on democracy isn't a very good idea. Freedom in America wasn't about democracy, it was from Constitutionally protected rights. The military doesn't truly make us free, nor does a ballot box. Those are both just supposed to be insurance policies, but the freedom people keep referring to in America was from a Constitutionally limited government and protected individual rights. Liberals get it wrong on economic issues and conservative get it wrong on social issues. It's the same underlying problem though in that oftentimes both sides figure that if they could just swing enough votes, they can have government enforce some otherwise needless laws on people trying to make America a melting pot, vigorously stirred. We need a buffet, and it's a respect for individual diversity and protection of liberties that creates freedom. Yes, we still have a lot of freedoms, but every generation things get a little worse and if we don't stop it the system will bust and who knows if the replacement will be better or worse. It would be nice to repair what we have if it's still possible.

The United States was founded because there was a pile of money to be made selling indian land west of the Appalachians, land the British would not allow the colonists to settle...

This has bothered me a bit also. We claimed to have bought large quantities of land from the Indians (for good prices), but I have a feeling we merely found someone who claimed to represent the Indians living there and paid the person enough money to say the property was sold. We really should have bought land from the individuals using it at the time instead of expecting some individual could truly represent all the different interests in the area. Later, when wars were fought, it was likely just demonstrating the fact that trying to represent a group of people without unanimous consent can cause problems, and this still occurs on an ongoing basis.

[dthmstr254]

NO WAY IS THE DEMOCRACY OF AMERICA FOUNDED ON CHRISTIANITY.

Look at your bible. It is a book that assumes kings and slaves. True the bible does tell us to be nice to each other, but no where does it give us the model for democratic government. The model of our government comes from Athens and Rome and the native American federation of tribes that existed before we got here.

the actual first introduction to democracy is found in israel when moses and joshua ran the show. there were tiers of elected leaders for each level of problem, seven tiers to be exact, (seven being the number of completion). they voted on these leaders every five years (five being the number symbolizing grace) and each problem was considered for a period of three jewish months, (three being the number of the trinity)
and also, if you remember, he had the whole of israel approve the raising of joshua to the level of leader of israel, so dont say it doesnt show a version of democracy. i fancy i know my bible a lot better than you. if you want a democratic version of government in the bible, read the last three books of the pentateuch.

[Lilith]

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God? Thomas Jefferson

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

the above quotes were found at www.dojgov.net/Liberty_Watch.htm

the rest was compiled and posted at http://focusonjerusalem.com/faithofourfathers.html"

A moral and religious people. Of course thier is only *one* kind of moral and religious people. Of course, in these starter quotes of yours, the gentlemen in question, are talking about *God*, Christianity, the worship of Jesus, has yet to be mentioned.

And I see that you copied and pasted the rest of this article, starting with "It was only in the Middle of the 20th century...", from the jerusalem site. For a minute there I was stunned by your transformation of speech, but I see that you had some help.

"Our founding father's believed that certain fundamental rights were designed and built into the existing order of nature by God the creator. This is readily evidenced in the physical laws of the universe, but if there exists a Creator God, then surely he built the same kind of order as a base for the spiritual world, and the human world as well. From the very beginning of creation God provided laws to give order, stability, and harmony to life, and also for the welfare of those he created. For this reason alone, the founding fathers began the Declaration of Independence with these words after alluding to the Laws of Nature, and Nature's God; “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights.” For more information on natural law, see The Natural Law of God article."

I have yet to read mention of Christianity yet. But wait....

"Consider the words of George Washington. “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers”.

Now appears that Washington prescribed to the belief of Jesus as Lord and Savior, so now only Christians can rule this nation. Great. I know some Christians that I prefer not to run our country, oh, like, Bush!

"The father of our great nation recognized that God almighty had granted the precious and elusive gift of freedom to the people of America. He also concluded that the freed people held the responsibility of perpetuating that freedom by maintaining an affinity, and indeed a moral ethic for selecting the utmost Christian persons to become their future rulers. Otherwise the Christian Republic would decay and fall into the same old pit of Satanic dominion that engulfs most of human civilization."

Watch out for Satan, he's gonna git ya ! Christianity has a moral obligation to save the rest of humanity from him!

“We are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply engrafted upon Christianity, and not the doctrines of worship of any imposter religion.”

Well what happened to freedom of religion? Out with the imposters! By god you're befouling the air of fine, upstanding, moral Christian folk!

"Our fore-fathers by actual design founded a Christian Republic in America, and they purposely established it as a basis to perpetuate a Christian Order. To tolerate any other religious precepts within the framework of our governing institutions is tantamount to inviting in and giving the “god of this world” a foothold in our own house for the ultimate scheme of Satan to once again enslave us under his dominion and eradicate our freedom. Satan does not seek our submission under his domain because he hates freedom of speech, or freedom of pursuits, but because he hates the freedom we have of teaching, preaching, and sharing the Gospel!"

This is must of what happened to Freedom of religion. Dang that Satan, he's always getting in the way.

"“These may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Law Giver (God) and the head of the Christian Church, which are clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.”

I thought Jesus was at the centar of Christianity? And where is anything promulgated in the New Testament?

"“Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis for existence, which is a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are simply a gift of God?”

Again, a mention of *Christianity*?

But wait....

"“The religion which has given us civil liberty is the religion of Christ, which enjoins humility and acknowledges in every person the status of having rights. Rights are bestowed upon us through genuine Christianity, and to it we owe our freedom and our free constitutions of government.”

The keywords here *genuine Christianity*, what exactly is *genuine Christianity*?

"“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of our republic upon the capacity of each and all of our citizens to govern themselves and thereby sustain our own selves, according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

The Ten Commandments make alot of sense to me, considering most of them aren't laws, except "Don't steal and Don't kill".....but as far as some common sense guidelines to live by, ok I can accept that.

"The founding father's quoted the Bible in approximately 34% of their political statements. Another 60% of their quotes were taken in reference from political ideals drawn from the Bible. Is it any wonder then that over 90% of the founding father's can be quoted as giving credit to the Bible as the source for which they each turned for guidance in framing our Constitution and the foundation of the Republic."

What exactly did they quote?

"The founding father's stipulated within the profession of national statesman the policy of a belief in future rewards and punishments for action undertaken while in political office, or in service to the nation. These early founders of the American Republic realized that their actions carried consequences for the nation. They realized that a nation, unlike an individual does not give account in the afterlife, but rather suffers or enjoys the consequences of its actions in the present, and therefore stands constantly under the mercy or the impending judgment of God."

You reap what you sow.

"Oh yes, I know that America has back-slidden, and that our nation is parading far away from the course set by the founding fathers. I see the accusations hurled at America by its many accusers. I watch the parading enemies of liberty chanting death to America, and referring to America as the Great Satan. But, let us remember accurately that our fore- fathers had a great and abiding faith in God that brought forth a Christian nation for us to dwell in. And let us, as children of the faithful fathers never forget, that unless we have that same Faith, and that same wisdom that our fathers expressed, then we may be the generation that loses the precious gift of God's liberty!"

I don't know if I'm a child of the faithful fathers, considring where my ancestors came from, and in the not so distant past either. I guess I'm just shit out of luck.

Have I made a complete ass out myself for composing above post, does it make sense to anyone, but me, have I been to insulting? Satan has taken hold of me! *gasp*

[SteveA]

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

I agree on the moral part. Any form of democratic government only works as long as most the people make good decisions.

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God? Thomas Jefferson

Notice how he says "a conviction in the minds of people"? He's saying that people need a belief in something above government for them to remain free. If government is substituted as the end all be all in directing the populace, the people are no longer free.

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

Got me on this one. I'd just be careful to make sure whatever God you're following isn't of a tyrannical nature.

Overall, I think think it's important to assure government doesn't interfere with religion, either promoting or discouraging it. I believe in evolution and religions are a tool in societal evolution, IMO. You need to allow people the freedom to exersize their beliefs, while of course holding them accountable for the results of their actions. Religions are good in the respect that they provide a vehicle to test out ideals and see the results in real life. The problem is in denying the freedom of people to do things differently and receive a different result/reward. (If you're of a religious nature, then imagine government enforced some specific social practices that happened to be of a wrong denomination ... and everyone went to hell because of it? Sure, you could try to sue for damages but there'd be little point in that. )

Anyway, government should only act when it's required to do so, not merely because it can. And I think the only requirement of government is to defend individual rights (even national defense is just to protect individuals against physical aggression), which doesn't include a right to not be offended if someone else does something in their personal life that you view as immoral.