Why is society, especially.....

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Isherwood The bible says god created man in his own image. So obviously god is a male/female/straight/gay/bi/black/white/yellow/blue-gray-green-brown eyed/saint/sinner/believer/non-believer. That's not so hard to understand, now is it? Mr.V, no one is asking you to like us or accept us. We know most people don't. And it doesn't really matter much to us, as long as we're just discussing personal opinions.

"Image"dosen't mean an exact copy - just a likeness. All I conclude from those statements is that God looks like one or another member of the homo sapiens species. I mean, god lives forever and makes worlds - obviously he's not *exactly* like us. (asuming his existance that is)

[rbuchanan]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio "homophobe" real definition is anyone that has an irrationale fer of homosexuals, homosexuality. The current "trendy" definition is anyone that opposed anything related to the GLBT alliance position. I am not a homophobe, but am labeled one by some here because I am agaist Gay Marriage

If this were all, I might believe you. It's not that I have anything against gay marriage; it's that I simply can't relate to it. I've been in short- and long-term relationships with both men and women, but I can't see myself marrying a man. A few of my friends who are also bi feel the same way I do.
But...

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio and feel the Gay Lifestyle is a sinful and erroneous life to live.

Here we are. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's homophobic. I'll check the rule book just to be sure.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I would never support a law banning homosexuals, or to force them to register or any bullshit like that.

How very tolerant of you not to support full-blown totalitarianism.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio But none the less, I am called a homophobe. Go figure.

Here's a hint: if you're in support of limiting what people want to do with their lives when they aren't hurting anyone else, you're going to be called a lot of things. Get used to it.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio God created Man. Gave man a "how to live" guide, the Bible, and free will. What we choose to do with our time on Earth is what is important. If you choose to ignore God, and his way to live.. it's YOUR choice. God didn't "create" homosexuals, for were that true, you would have to accept that God lied about free will and we are all tied to a destiny handed to us. I refuse to believe that. So your question is.. completely and utterly flawed.

What does God making homosexuals have to do with free will? God creates us supposedly before we're even a thought. That means he knows who the gays are. Who knew Alexander the Great was Alexander the Gay too. Refuse to believe whatever you want. The truth hurts. Every question has an answer, it cannot be flawed. Just because you don't know and you're afraid of not knowing, shouldn't mean you need to revert back to a crappy answer like the bible.

[Mr.Vicchio]

rbuchanan...

Because I find Homosexuality a "sin" and that it's an immoral life to live is homophobic now?

Only if you're intolarant of others not agreeing with your opinion. I'm not intolerant, I just disagree.

I don't believe in "gay Marriage". I do suport civil unions.

I.E. instead of forcing the country (which so far, doesn't sem to inclined to grant gay marriages) to alter the way it determines what constitutes a Marriage, I believe a civil Union system would be an acceptable comprimise. But there are those that demand thier view be the law of the land and anyone that disagrees... is attacked and insulted.

Way to go.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio But there are those that demand thier view be the law of the land and anyone that disagrees... is attacked and insulted.

That is because your viewpoint offends others.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 That is because your viewpoint offends others.

My viewpoint offends others.. oh damn. And where in is it illegal, unconstitutional... wrong for me to offend others?

Your viewpoint offends me, and millions of others that agree with me.

Should you be verbally insulted? Should I call the ACLU and demand that you be silenced for offending me.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio My viewpoint offends others.. oh damn. And where in is it illegal, unconstitutional... wrong for me to offend others? Your viewpoint offends me, and millions of others that agree with me. Should you be verbally insulted? Should I call the ACLU and demand that you be silenced for offending me.

Hey I never said it was a bad thing. Hell, if anything it's good because we grow as a country and try to perfect our society. But don't cry and moan when others insult you because of your offences to others.

[rbuchanan]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio rbuchanan... Because I find Homosexuality a "sin" and that it's an immoral life to live is homophobic now?

Calling a collective's lifestyle 'sinful' and 'immoral' would certainly imply that you don't care for them, wouldn't it?

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Only if you're intolarant of others not agreeing with your opinion. I'm not intolerant, I just disagree.

If you were tolerant, you'd allow gays to marry who they please.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I don't believe in "gay Marriage". I do suport civil unions. I.E. instead of forcing the country (which so far, doesn't sem to inclined to grant gay marriages) to alter the way it determines what constitutes a Marriage,

Nobody's forcing the country to do that. People can determine what the definition of a marriage is any way they please, regardless of what gays do.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I believe a civil Union system would be an acceptable comprimise.

Why do you think homosexuals should have to compromise for something that heterosexuals don't have to?

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio But there are those that demand thier view be the law of the land and anyone that disagrees... is attacked and insulted.

Why are you referring to yourself in the third person?

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Way to go.

Thanks!

[Matt W]

We placed a couple of gays under survelliance and followed them on their way to the semiannual GLBT meeting.

Mr perfecto...you placed a couple of gays 'under surveillance'??? Whatever in the world made you do that? To me, that suggests insecurity and fear of the worst kind - but if I'm wrong, please elaborate!

As for their views, people in general become more extreme when they're with like-minded people - it reinforces & intensifies their views, and they feel comfortable in letting rip with views that they'd never share with the general public. For example, do you make jokes about 'queers' when you're with other like-minded people?

[Mr.Vicchio]

[quote=rbuchanan]Calling a collective's lifestyle 'sinful' and 'immoral' would certainly imply that you don't care for them, wouldn't it?
[quote]

No it would mean that I find the gay lifestyle to be sinful and immoral. That doesn't imply I do not care for them. Just that I think they are making a mistake.

[quote=rbuchanan]
If you were tolerant, you'd allow gays to marry who they please.
[quote]

They can Marry who they please, as long as that person is of the opposite sex. Marriage is union between a man and a woman. If YOUR side were tolerant you'd accept that and push for civil unions (same damn thing as marriage, different name. Gives your side the legal rights, and keep my side from getting it's panties in a bunch, but oh NO, you have to demand WE change to accept YOU as YOU want. )

[quote=rbuchanan]
Nobody's forcing the country to do that. People can determine what the definition of a marriage is any way they please, regardless of what gays do.
[quote]

And they do, from Oregon East, the PEOPLE have rejected Gay Marriage time and time again when put before them in a refferendum. You guys refuse to accept this and seek the courts to change and FORCE the issue.
[quote=rbuchanan]
Why do you think homosexuals should have to compromise for something that heterosexuals don't have to?
[quote]
Because the definition of Marriage is One Man, One Woman. You want to change that to "Any two people that love each other"

Quote by: rbuchanan Why are you referring to yourself in the third person? Thanks!

Why not? keeps my temper in check when we speak in the third person.

[mr.perfecto]

So how is God a homophobe then? What "reasons of others" made you call God one? God doesn't care what the gay scientists think.

And really, you might as well be asking why God made murderers. At least then you would have to properly take gayness out of "inate, fixed from birth" category and move it to "way to pass time."

I'm kind of surprised you really think the religious types condemn homosexuality because God said it was wrong, in an odd sort of way it suggests you at least think we're honest. That just maybe the key to break you out of the cocoon the slippery webs of uncritical liberalism has trapped you in. Free your mind and fly away.

[rbuchanan]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio No it would mean that I find the gay lifestyle to be sinful and immoral. That doesn't imply I do not care for them. Just that I think they are making a mistake.

I see what you mean. The question is, why do you care? And if you could give me something a little more rational than, "I'm concerned because they're going to hell," I'd just love it.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio They can Marry who they please, as long as that person is of the opposite sex.

Oh, that's cute.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Marriage is union between a man and a woman.

Again, my trusty Webster's makes itself useful:

marriage
1. the state of being married
2. any intimate union

No specification for gender was so much as implied as being necessary.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio If YOUR side were tolerant you'd accept that and push for civil unions (same damn thing as marriage, different name. Gives your side the legal rights, and keep my side from getting it's panties in a bunch,

So basically, you're saying that because we don't want to adhere to your way of doing things, we're being intolerant because (OOOOHHHH!!!) you'll get upset if we decide to call marriage between a homosexual couple marriage.
A little advice: live with it, because we are going to win this one in every state where indoor plumbing is widely available. If you don't like gays marrying one another, fair enough. Ignore us.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio but oh NO, you have to demand WE change to accept YOU as YOU want. )

There's another incredible misconception on your part. Like so many Americans, you equate tolerance with acceptance. We're not asking you to accept us. We're just asking that you tolerate us, which isn't exactly a huge request. If you don't like the way we live our lives, I can live with that. But when people who think the way you do try to pass legislation to stop a couple from being married just because they're of the same gender, you're butting into other people's lives. If history has taught me anything, intruding on somebody's personal business in order to attempt to validate a social, political, or religious opinion leads to a lot of headaches and failure.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio And they do, from Oregon East, the PEOPLE have rejected Gay Marriage time and time again when put before them in a refferendum. You guys refuse to accept this and seek the courts to change and FORCE the issue.

What TEH PEOPLE want is relevant in a democracy, but we're living in in a constitutional republic, where people's freedoms shouldn't be dictated by mob rule. If homosexuals need to take this issue to a court to win a freedom for themselves, then so be it. They wouldn't need to do so if your ilk weren't hell-bent on keeping them from marrying.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Because the definition of Marriage is One Man, One Woman.

That's your definition. The word marriage isn't necessarily gender-specific.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio You want to change that to "Any two people that love each other"

That doesn't contradict the definition of marriage!

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Why not? keeps my temper in check when we speak in the third person.

Why do you feel the need to keep your temper in check?

[mr.perfecto]

You know, we have to change the definition of marriage so that corporations can marry. Corporations are just like people, we they aren't but in all the legal ways that count they are. The corporation that Trump is an owner of just filed bankruptcy not to long ago. Corporations already share so many of the rights other people are allowed that it would be very intolerant to continue to not recognize Corporate marriages. Corporations are doing it already anyway. For instance, you can actually interface an Apple Ipod to a computer with a Windows operating system.

Married people are often considered to have a greater appreciation and devotion to fulfilling their social responsibilities. Legally recognized, consensual sodomy between consent corporations may just be the solution to keep corporations from shafting the little guy and the enviroment. And, you have to admit, Apple and Microsoft would have beautiful children. The next next-generation consoles would be pretty sweet--they could even name it after me--Perfectavision 2008.

[kingjust]

Quote by: YourTokah It's not a hard topic to discuss - check out all of the replies on the homosexual marriage thread. This is sorta like the whole debate about god and religion. So many people believe conflicting things, think conflicting things, and the political waters are very murky, although decidedly in favor of it not being legal. It'll go on (the debate, I mean) for quite a while, yet. The moral majority are, unfortunately, the MAJORITY.

Yeah, I hear ya, but how is the majority speaking for the minority and regulating what the minority can have, like marraige for homosexuals? Because honestly, it is more of a religious attribute (marraige) than a legal one. Just like someone put it in this forum, homosexuals should have the right to get married as seen by the government, but the churches do not have to agree with them getting married in church. I guess it's more or less for the legal benifits you get with being married, which doesn't hurt america but shows that we are more open to such things. So why the hatred toward them getting that right to marraige, when religious viewpoints should have no say so in legal standings?

[kingjust]

Quote by: PDJane It's legal in Canada, and except for a comment from the Pope, it's been business as usual......and no one is marrying their sister or their dog. Frankly, I have to believe that the whole debate should be a non starter. it's solely a human rights issue (by the way, New Zealand has joined the enlightened ones, along with Spain.)

I hope that the religious will stop pushing theirs ideals so we can follow suite showing our openess, legally, to such things. I remember 1 time when whites and blacks couldn't get married......

[kingjust]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio God created Man. Gave man a "how to live" guide, the Bible, and free will. What we choose to do with our time on Earth is what is important. If you choose to ignore God, and his way to live.. it's YOUR choice. God didn't "create" homosexuals, for were that true, you would have to accept that God lied about free will and we are all tied to a destiny handed to us. I refuse to believe that. So your question is.. completely and utterly flawed.

To you V, but still answer it.

First, prove god created man, then answer the question. It's people like you who put their religion infront of the rest of society that is preventing us from having equality for "ALL". By not answering the question shows a biased to the topic and to the question. IMO

[kingjust]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio "homophobe" real definition is anyone that has an irrationale fer of homosexuals, homosexuality. The current "trendy" definition is anyone that opposed anything related to the GLBT alliance position. I am not a homophobe, but am labeled one by some here because I am agaist Gay Marriage and feel the Gay Lifestyle is a sinful and erroneous life to live. I would never support a law banning homosexuals, or to force them to register or any bullshit like that. But none the less, I am called a homophobe. Go figure.

Your position against gay marraige shows that you are homophobic. If they are not getting married in a church, why can they not get married seen by the law of the land (which is not the bible)?

[kingjust]

Quote by: Autolykos This issue is all about the money. Married (in the eyes of the "law") couples currently receive federal tax benefits, among other things. Homosexuals see this and want to be legally married too, in order to reap the benefits. Plus, some of them may feel that they inherently deserve the benefits purely by "virtue" of being homosexual. It seems to be true that most homosexuals would not wish to get married, ceteris paribus. After all, since they are excluded from the three major religions of the world, it is natural to expect that many (if not most) of them are rather hostile towards the traditions embraced by those religions. One of the foremost of these traditions is marriage. So why would homosexuals want to embrace a pinnacle of the religions that disdain them unless there was a good reason to do so? Apparently, tax breaks and other benefits provide the motivation here. In my opinion, those of the State should consider marriage to be outside of their jurisdiction. The reason why marriage has become politicized in the first place is because of the problem of handling the married couple's property. If the State were not the sole arbiter of property disputes, there would be no issue here, and marriage could be safely outside of the State's influence. Then it would not matter whether anyone wanted to wed homosexuals. - Rob

Why not give them the benefits of being married? Now the property, where would then marraige be legal if not controlled by the state? And how is the state responsible for the property, I thought it would the local counties that handle that?

[kingjust]

Quote by: Isherwood The bible says god created man in his own image. So obviously god is a male/female/straight/gay/bi/black/white/yellow/blue-gray-green-brown eyed/saint/sinner/believer/non-believer. That's not so hard to understand, now is it? Mr.V, no one is asking you to like us or accept us. We know most people don't. And it doesn't really matter much to us, as long as we're just discussing personal opinions.

Exactly, so the question still stands why are society so scared of gays getting married?

[kingjust]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio rbuchanan... Because I find Homosexuality a "sin" and that it's an immoral life to live is homophobic now? Only if you're intolarant of others not agreeing with your opinion. I'm not intolerant, I just disagree. I don't believe in "gay Marriage". I do suport civil unions. I.E. instead of forcing the country (which so far, doesn't sem to inclined to grant gay marriages) to alter the way it determines what constitutes a Marriage, I believe a civil Union system would be an acceptable comprimise. But there are those that demand thier view be the law of the land and anyone that disagrees... is attacked and insulted. Way to go.

But is marraige one entity or 2 divided up between the state and the church, which are both completely seperate. The church doesn't ask permission from the state to marry a couple and vice versa.......oh, wait, isn't a marraige license required before you are married in church. So the state controls it all and religious viewpoints are null and void. It's there just to provide a beautiful setting for the ceremony. pun intended