Why should you get half??

[YourTokah]

If a woman is that idiotic, she deserves whatever she gets (as in, nothing.)

[kingjust]

Quote by: Athena What is marriage suppose to be and who is the authority on what marriage is suppose to be?

Good gay marraige debate starter!!

[kingjust]

Quote by: Athena Oh darling, I have legs to stand on, and like Nancy Sintra sang, "these boots are made for walking". If your thread were not limited to males consoling each other, it would have more value. You are so busy bashing women, we have ignored the increasing tyranny of the state, and that is a far worse problem, because it has far more power of our lives than the people we marry and divorce. So much for inferiority- the quality of this thread has not been very high.

The quality of the thread is great, but to you, the one whose gender is above all else, wouldn't see where we are coming from. Just try be in V's shoes, or anyone elses shoes where your other half takes you to the cleaners during a divorce. I still don't see any legs. Also, I'm pretty aware of other problems in our country and the world itself. We are just debating on 1 topic, so savior of all humantiy, relax, we will get to those things when we have the power to make change. But as you and I know, our administration is completely raping their own people in the middle and lower classes, so trust me Athena, i'm aware..............like johnny 5!! And just to add, I wouldn't mind a little bashing on males if any females came on board and described their process of divorce where the husband took them to the cleaners,...................i'm waiting..............
So Athena, as you can see, it happens to the husbands the majority of the time. So don't get offended if it's now geared toward women, your not one of those "bitches" are you? If not, then we are not talking about you and you shouldn't be offended.

[YourTokah]

Whoever brings more in and/or makes more should get more. If they started off with equal assets, for example, they both owned separate houses, and reached a mutual decision to sell one, they should be equally entitled to the remaining home. When children are involved, however, the individual with primary cutody should be able to retain use of the home and the equal value should be taken out of other assets.

[kingjust]

Quote by: YourTokah Whoever brings more in and/or makes more should get more. If they started off with equal assets, for example, they both owned separate houses, and reached a mutual decision to sell one, they should be equally entitled to the remaining home. When children are involved, however, the individual with primary cutody should be able to retain use of the home and the equal value should be taken out of other assets.

What if the other person had been paying for the house and the other gets the child for some odd reason, should he give up what he and only he has paid for?

[YourTokah]

Just because someone has been paying the bills on the domicile doesn't qualify them to be the better parent. If the courts decide the child is better off with the other parent, the caretaking parent should receive the residence to provide for the child, and the parent who had been paying the bills can get his portion of the settlement in other monies and assets, then go buy himself a new house.

[Lilith]

I have two stories to tell.

My step mom divorced my dad about 3 years ago. The married when I was 10, so the marriage was 17 years. They had no children together. She had her two from a previous marriage and he had us 3 from my mother(btw, he did not take my biological mother to the cleaners, he never got nor wanted anything from her, she suffered from mental illness and he left it at that..) So anyways, 4 years ago, a year before stepmom filed for divorce, they borrowed money out of his 401k, plus a loan from a bank, to purchase 11 acres of land and had a new house, with a 30 year mortgage built on it. Well, then literally out of the blue, stepmom files for divorce....Her reasons, She was tired of my dad lying to her, claimed he had a gambling problem and was spending all the money. Had no proof of this mind you. She conveniantly forgot all that my dad did for her over the years...expensive things he purchased for her, hired and paid for a lawyer for her so she could take her ex back to court, not mention all the credit cards that she ran up. Anyhoo....to make a long story short...She was awarded $60,000 dollars of his retirement, half of the 11 acres, that she has to offer to sell my dad first before she sells to someone else(already hearing rumour that she is trying to go behind his back to sell it) and left him will all the unpaid credit card bills. Cards that he had opened in her name and that he has never used! And another bitter pill...when she recieved the check for the 60 thousand, the courts made a mistake and awarded her an extra $13,000, that she was not supposed to recieve. My father confronted her about it, she claimed he did not what he was talking about. He had the proof from the statements from his 401k. I was at his house the day that he fought and screamed with her on the phone. I have never seen that man cry, like he did that day. The utter betrayel that women has done to him and has left him broken. This man has worked like a dog all his life, raised us alone for 6 years before he remarried and gave Shirley the sun and moon. He really loved her and went out of his way to make her happy. But you know what they say, what goes around comes around. Everyone gets what they deserve in the long run. Sometimes in the most unexpected ways too.

Story No. 2

I have a dear friend at work, a female friend. Her and her husband split up about 5 years ago. They had three kids together. When they intially split up, she had the kids and was living on her own, paying the bills, taking care of the kids. The ex-husband all during the marriage, never held full-time employment, was abusive, controlling, etc. She worked all the years they were married, plus raising the kids. Well after she left him, he went beserk. Called her whore, bitch, slut, you name it. While they were married, it was ok for him not to work, run the roads, party with the boys, but she was expected to work and be at the house with the kids. So what does he do.....He slides into town one day, while she's at work, gathers up the kids from school and daycare and leaves with them out of state, to Wisconsin where he had an aunt, very well off, he helped him out, set him up in a house, etc. He got the kids enrolled in school, joined a chruch( A good christian man here...), and filed for a divorce, had the auntie hire him a nice expensive lawyer to plead his case. When he intially left and she called him and asked him if he was going to bring the kids back, he told her no and that he will see her in court. So she takes a bus up there...and divorce proceedings start. He tells his lawyer all these allegations that she is an unfit mother, she's whoring around, he can better support the kids(which he could not at the time), even had the preacher get up in court to testify that he is a good, Christian man and is providing his kids with good, moral upbringing. Yada, yada. They get joint custody, but he gets to main custodial parent out of the deal, she got the weekends, and summer deal. And she has to pay him child support. What does he do with it? He's joined a country club and plays golf on the weekends. Treats his kids like shit. Very controlling with them. Since she lives in Texas, she only gets them for the holidays and her 45 days during the summer. When they are down during the summer, those poor kids beg her for school clothes and such, because the dad wont provide for them. The son is 17 and he wants to live with his mom. So she bought him a bus ticket to come down here and when the dad found out, he had the sherriff stop the bus two states away and get the boy of the bus! Very sad situation.

So really what it comes down, is who has the most money, the better lawyers and who can make the most convincing case. Alot of people walk away with alot bitterness and anger. Sad.

[belverron]

Quote by: kingjust Good gay marraige debate starter!!

As if we need another one of those.

[kingjust]

Quote by: YourTokah Just because someone has been paying the bills on the domicile doesn't qualify them to be the better parent. If the courts decide the child is better off with the other parent, the caretaking parent should receive the residence to provide for the child, and the parent who had been paying the bills can get his portion of the settlement in other monies and assets, then go buy himself a new house.

So all the money he has put in he will get nothing compared to the value of the house? And you don't think that is a raw deal. Be the wife that works and makes all the money, while the father stays home and plays daddy, takes you to court, and the house that you have been paying for goes to him. How would that feel?

[YourTokah]

Just because a mother (or father) works does not disqualify them as a parent. In that situation, the custody would most likely be fairly split to allow both parents much time with the child without disrupting the child's schooling.

A lot of times one parent is allowed to retain residency in the house, but not to sell the heouse. In the event that the house was sold, it would have to be agreed upon by both parties and the profits split.

And "all the money he has put in" was his duty. He had a child, it's his job to provide for that child. The mother could be the one working if he wants to stay home and play mr. mom. Either way, they are both providing necessary functions and are equally entitled, but the child has the right to have her life disrupted as little as possible and therefore to remain in her home.

[5010]

In my opinion, there is no way to make divorce fair. Divorce screws over the whole family, including the spouses kin. Complaining about who wins the divorce is like siamese twins who shared a limb then one complains because the other ended up with bigger stump.

As for child support. I think it should begin at conception, not divorce. If a spouse insists on blowing the family income (either intentionally or by weakness) and not leaving enough to finance the kids' needs, the other spouse should be able to demand a percentage towards an account or something, even garnish the wages if that's what it takes so that the kids get support. Divorce shouldn't be the only way they can get the kids taken care of.

[Athena]

Quote by: kingjust The quality of the thread is great, but to you, the one whose gender is above all else, wouldn't see where we are coming from. Just try be in V's shoes, or anyone elses shoes where your other half takes you to the cleaners during a divorce. I still don't see any legs. Also, I'm pretty aware of other problems in our country and the world itself. We are just debating on 1 topic, so savior of all humantiy, relax, we will get to those things when we have the power to make change. But as you and I know, our administration is completely raping their own people in the middle and lower classes, so trust me Athena, i'm aware..............like johnny 5!! And just to add, I wouldn't mind a little bashing on males if any females came on board and described their process of divorce where the husband took them to the cleaners,...................i'm waiting.............. So Athena, as you can see, it happens to the husbands the majority of the time. So don't get offended if it's now geared toward women, your not one of those "bitches" are you? If not, then we are not talking about you and you shouldn't be offended.

I don't think you read what I have said about women also getting screwed in marriage, and I don't think you care, because you appear to care only about the guy's side. But then you also missed what I said about son who is being screwed over and why I made an issue of this thread not addressing the tyranny of the state.

In social research, if someone goes about asking and answering a question with a predetermined out come, the research is invalid. This thread began with a question about things being 50/50 but the narrow intent is to prove only men get screwed. I am out of here, because this is not a literimate discussion. It is a one sided discussion that can only distort truth.

Besides I suspect the divorce could have been prevented if the man loved his wife and children enough to put his wants aside for them, just as every man expects the woman to do for them. This is such a waste- you guys can cry all you want on each other's shoulders, I am not coming back to this pitty pot party.

[Lilith]

[quote]I didn't ask for the divorce. My Ex decided that since I had no desire to move back to her home town, and live there after I got out of the Navy, she would go running home to mommy. WHICH she did. To keep Joint Custody of the kids, I was pulled over the coals.

I have ZERO problem with paying child support. I do however have a problem with living by the skin of my teeth while my ex wife lives off the support. She's gone on one 7 day cruise, going on another, took a 5 day 4 night shopping spree to the mall fo America... (she works as a CNA, she makes a little over 1k a month, her MOTHER pays for her house, paid off her car and pays for her utlities). My ex is scamming the good life while I barely make it month to month.

And she's talking about taking legal action if I don't hold out for the highest sale price on this house. That's bullshit. She didn't pay for it, she has NO exposure if it doesn't sell, and she gets to force me to pay 600(rent and mortgage and THAT doesn't cover insurance AND taxes) a month till it sells enough to make HER a profit? [\Quote]

It sucks. I can see where your anger is coming from. I wonder if there is some way you can gather proof of her misuse of the child support and that maybe she does not need so much, considering that her mother is helping her out and take her back to court. Money makes this world go around, not love. People will act fools for money. My stepmom raked my poor dad over the coals, when she basically got tired of him. Thank god they did not have any children together! He's had many bitter pills to swallow, espacially after the divorce, when he came across lewd emails that she and her ex had been writing each other for several years and other letters that she had been writing to an old highschool sweetheart that she had reconnected with. And my friend, who pays out the ass in child support to her kids and the sob wont buy them school clothes or take them to much needed dentist appts, etc. She saves records of everything all medical expenses she pays for them, including the CPS report that she called in for suspected abuse last Christmas. She says if the fucker takes her back to court over this time of her buying a bus ticket for the son to come down to stay with her. The sad thing is, the boy has never wanted to live with his dad, from day one. You would think at 17 he could make that decision for himself. Some people are real fuckers in this world.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Well, she does take care of the kids, but now... get this, my son is 6, he's in the first grade. He'd been in class 4 DAYS. His teacher told her to test him for mild Autisim. My Ex goes on line, and "well he could technically show these 20 signs..." now she wants me to pay for the testing that... only she and this teacher agree with.

If my son has a problem, I will work 3 jobs and sell my body on the street (figurativly of course) for him to get the care he needs. I would die for my son, and my daughter. But my father, my step mom (an RN with 30 years exp) both think this is bullshit.


T Custody is set up where unless we start fighting over it, I can have the kids anytime I want. (I just live... in maine they in Kansas atm) and we are gearing for the kids to spend Summers with me and School with her until they hi tHS then we flip the arrangement. She agreed to this mostly because I played Football, Basketball, Track and field in HS and she didn't do shit. (I just have to live ina house big enough, and the kids have to agree to it)

I don't want to ruin that. Many ex wives use the kids as leverage to hurt the husbands. My ex loves the kids and so far... hasn't done that.

[jose]

Would you agree that the Big winners in any divorce are the lawyers?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Only if there is "money" involved. I ain't a rich man, so her lawyer didn't make "that" much. But she paid him so I could care less in this case


But yes in many cases the lawyers hook it up hard core.

[jose]

but you hired a lawyer to fight her lawyer right? right? maybe thats why she got half

[Lilith]

Well, she does take care of the kids, but now... get this, my son is 6, he's in the first grade. He'd been in class 4 DAYS. His teacher told her to test him for mild Autisim. My Ex goes on line, and "well he could technically show these 20 signs..." now she wants me to pay for the testing that... only she and this teacher agree with.

Absolutely not. You have just as much say as to what is going on with those kids as she does. You don't have to agree to anything or agree to pay for anything if you find it questionable. Research the disorder, question what tests she and this teacher want done, research those test. If your agreeable with them fine, but if not, then suggest to her other options. What gets me, is when one parent is recieving child support, they still always have thier hand out for more. This attitude of "Well they live with me so he's gonna pay for everything..." Well you know to an extent, if the guy really is a sorry sob and unless forced to take care of his kids, he wouldn't. But when you got a a guy or woman who are able and want to participate in taking care of the kids, well shit, learn to leave well enough alone. But anyhoo...Is not the whole reason that she is recieving almost $700 a month, for two kids, correct? Is so that she can afford to take them to docters appts, etc.? Uh, I'm sure that test might be a couple hundred bucks, if that much, I dunno I could be wrong, so I'm sure she can afford to pay for it. She may not be "using the kids against you per se"...but she is in more subtle ways...she'll continue milking you as long as you let her. You do have rights and from what you have written, you don't sound like a dead beat dad to me. Anyhoo...let me hush...Just voicing my opinion.

[kingjust]

Quote by: Athena I don't think you read what I have said about women also getting screwed in marriage, and I don't think you care, because you appear to care only about the guy's side. But then you also missed what I said about son who is being screwed over and why I made an issue of this thread not addressing the tyranny of the state. In social research, if someone goes about asking and answering a question with a predetermined out come, the research is invalid. This thread began with a question about things being 50/50 but the narrow intent is to prove only men get screwed. I am out of here, because this is not a literimate discussion. It is a one sided discussion that can only distort truth. Besides I suspect the divorce could have been prevented if the man loved his wife and children enough to put his wants aside for them, just as every man expects the woman to do for them. This is such a waste- you guys can cry all you want on each other's shoulders, I am not coming back to this pitty pot party.

Athena, i'm just stating the majority of divorce outcomes. Your examples to many more are uncomparible or even valid. But your hypocrisy shows in your third paragraph. You say this is just about men being screwed and feel it's foul towards women, but you blantantly blame men for the divorce, so stated in your third paragraph. So, before you judge those who complain, listen to what they have to say. This isn't about counterargrments, that women blah blah........ I want to know why "either" should get half?

[mathurin]

here is an idea, whomever receives child support must submit a certain percentage of that money in receipts, lets say 70%

if someone receives $100 for child support then they must submit $70 worth of receipts for items to the payer, things like utilities, school expenses, and doctor bills would be acceptable

athena, while women may have been excessivly abused in the past its not so much the case anymore, sure it happens but not on the scale you assume anymore in america, and only then because they do not take it upon themselves to make the change

women have a massive advantage in the court system, if you are really egalitarian you would agree with changing the system to be more equal, however instead you wish to focus solely on gaining more power for women, meaning you either want to take over the world for women, or you have been thoroughly brainwashed into believing you are actually severly oppressed by modern men

you have also fallen into the same trap many of the men here have, assuming one gender is responsible for the divorce, of course the man didnt love her enough, or whatever, im with Vichio, he wanted to move to the best place for work, a good sound idea, she wanted to be near family in a town he hated the very smell of. the sacrifice for her would have been smaller than the one for her (new invention, telephone)
also we can place lots of blame lots of places, perhaps a man cheats because his wife isnt giving him enough (in the past this wouldnt be, since all marital sex was considered consentual, but that was rightly changed) or perhaps she allows herself to fall into bad shape
maybe he didnt love her enough because she watched oprah all day and bitch at him constantly when he got home, hard to love a bitch


you are stuck too much on one side athena, the same fault you accuse those of this thread of having

anyway, half of everything?
sure, you only need to show one of 2 things, that she somehow gave up her productivity to contribute to his (stayed at home or took a second rate job to care for the kids) or that she used her productivity to increase the families as a whole (worked to put him through college)
its only fair, they lumped all they had together to work as one, it is only fair that the assets be split

however if the man can show that she did nothing, had the opportunity to get a job, but didnt, could have continued education, but didnt, in otherwords if he can show that his wife intended to live out her life on his paycheck, no kids just watch TV during the day, she should not get half, however i am sure this happens rarely enough