slavery and marriage

[Athena]

As the right of secession became an arguement about slavery, I want to point out, during the time when slavery became a big issue, there were women who felt very badly about their miserable condition as wives being ignored, because of the religous sanctity put on marriage.

When people are poor in the wilder of the US or USSR or China or Muslim countries, women are assumed slaves to serve husbands and society. Aristotle argued that the Greeks were most fit to rule because they understood the important of order, where the ox, wife and slave had just about the same social status and one purpose, to serve men, their superiors.

There are benefits to this order, and I think the autocratic, industrial north, that has always treated human beings as disposable, to be used and thrown away when no longer useful, is to be faulted! Supposedly marriage is for life and slaves are the responsibility of their masters. The hands of the industrial north are not lilly white with failure to accept responsibility for those they exploit and throw away.

[Prometheus]

Can you name a government who accepts responsibility for those they exploit and throw away?

[Athena]

Communism like democracy and republic, are not governments, but are concepts of how governments should function. Communism was committed to life long responsibility for citizens, and I don't think this is a bad thing. However, it is evident central planning is a very poor way of meeting of citizen needs. As the US federal government is assuming more and more responsibility for cental planning; instead of futile name calling and throwing insults, we need to seriously consider the issues.

[Athena]

having two post on slavery and marriage is confusing, but this one is a human decency issue and the other one is a legal/goverment issue.

This makes is easier to discuss the morality of the capitalist communist conflict and the problems with theocracy verses secularism. Without religion, would the US have any morality at all? Communism provided secular morality.

[Athena]

Boy do I feel cheated. We have done a lot of arguing about the role government should take in the well being of all who participate in this government of people, by the people, for the people.

The question is "Can you name a government who accepts responsibility for those they exploit and throw away?" and I answered communism is the secular ideology of government responsible for the well being of all, and there is no argument? Come on, we have the Christianity dominated capitalist (Calvinsim) US in one corner and communism in the other. Let's compare them. Which treats their fellow humans best and which treats humans more like disposable things that can be used and throw out, and looked down upon with disgust when no longer useful?

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: Athena Boy do I feel cheated. We have done a lot of arguing about the role government should take in the well being of all who participate in this government of people, by the people, for the people. The question is "Can you name a government who accepts responsibility for those they exploit and throw away?" and I answered communism is the secular ideology of government responsible for the well being of all, and there is no argument? Come on, we have the Christianity dominated capitalist (Calvinsim) US in one corner and communism in the other. Let's compare them. Which treats their fellow humans best and which treats humans more like disposable things that can be used and throw out, and looked down upon with disgust when no longer useful?

Treating humans best isn't always a good thing. We are so incapable of living as humans without hurting our own species, so we need law enforcement. You sound like you want our government to run like a communist one, where everyone is treated so nicely. It is impossible for humans to live in a communist government, because humans cannot control their emotions of laziness and greed all too well. So I guess I'll stick with the one that uses and throws us out since there are no other acceptable alternatives.

[Athena]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 Treating humans best isn't always a good thing. We are so incapable of living as humans without hurting our own species, so we need law enforcement. You sound like you want our government to run like a communist one, where everyone is treated so nicely. It is impossible for humans to live in a communist government, because humans cannot control their emotions of laziness and greed all too well. So I guess I'll stick with the one that uses and throws us out since there are no other acceptable alternatives.

Interesting comment on a thread about slavery and marriage. This isn't the way I expected the discussion to go. I agree humans are faulted. This is the main reason women's liberation was a good thing. Women are no longer financially dependent on men, with no choice in the matter. That means they can escape abuse. Hopefully, this will change the behavior of men, enough so marriage is a good thing, but I don't think this is happening. I think women's liberation has made things worse, increasing the dependency on government to maintain social order.

Morally, I think communism is superior, but as for a national organizational it is infurior, because of the problems with central planning. This is very much a family no family issue, as strong families mean more independence from government, and in both the communist countries and the US propaganda has destroyed strong families. But unless humans are prepared to be good humans, they don't make good families, and aren't good employees or good for anything else.