Cigarettes

[gr8fuldaniel]

Why is Jack Kevorkian in prison, but people who sell cigarettes running around free.

Is it fair for some people to be allowed to assist in suicide but only if they pay billions of dollars to politicians for that right?

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I am working to prove that water causes death based on the fact that all beings that have consumed water, have now died, or will assuredly die. Anyone want to help? LOL

Its not the water, but the chlorine and other poisons they put in the water, thats what kills ya!

[Osborn F Enready]

That a good question, WHY is Jack Kevorkian in Prison?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[SteveA]

If we're going to start banning potentially harmful substances, I could make a huge list, including a lot of presciption medication to add to this list. I think I know more people that have had problems with legal drugs than illegal ones.

We used to not have any illegal drugs and a kid could buy almost anything he wanted. Sure some people had problems, but they STILL DO and the GO TO JAIL AND SHOOT EACH OTHER NOW OVER THE PROFITS.

Do you think tabacco use would totally stop or would it become even more of a problem than marajuana is now? Are we going to have assets seizure laws over tabacoo also?!

Government doesn't teach morality.

Quit smoking yourself if you want to. Don't drag everyone else off to jail and expect us to pay for it because you want to quit! Buy a bar and put a "No Smoking" sign on the door, if you want to do something for the community or pay your uncle $100 to chain you to a bed for 2 weeks so you can stop.

[gr8fuldaniel]

My Mom was diagnosed with emphasema just friday. She will have to quit. She thought she was smoking as a choice. Now that the time has come to quit, I hope she can. I have been procrastinating just one little cigarette for 9 1/2 years. I told her this morning, "The craving will pass in 7 minutes, whether you light up or not. So just do or think of something else for 7 minutes and you will be free."

[Chris]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I am working to prove that water causes death based on the fact that all beings that have consumed water, have now died, or will assuredly die. Anyone want to help? LOL

Dont get me wrong, I don't want to make it illegal, but this is weak. they have proven that ciggs kill.

Doesn't change my position in my previous post. More people die from ciggs than pot or heroin.

I think you can agree with me that we should make those legal.

[Prometheus]

1. Should smoking become illegal?

Hell no! Whoever owns the land/building says what you can do on said land/building. It's not complicated. I assert that the government has absolutely *no* right to say what people must or must not do on my land/building (other then basic chriminal acts).

2. If not, what do you think the legal smoking age should be?

Any age we pick is arbitrary, so there is no defensable answer. However I agree that we need an age. Maybe 16 or 18. I don't have anystatistics that would allow me to make an intellegent answer.

3. Do you smoke?

Do I look like an idiot? I've got too much to do with my life to die at age 50!
[quote]

7. What should the price of a pack of smokes be?

Are you kidding me? What should the price of a bar of soap or a candy bar be? Whatever the buyer will pay and the producer will sell at. Come on, market economy - lets not do something stupid to try to penalize smokers. If you penalize smokers for screwing up thier lungs, you need to penalize frensh fry eaters for larding out thier asses.

8. How can we, the people, make smoking illegal?

Uh... by passing a law? That's the normal method. Were you thinking of a coup or a vigilante campaign? But of course we have no right to make it illegal anyway, so moot anyway.

[Chris]

Quote by: Prometheus Hell no! Whoever owns the land/building says what you can do on said land/building. It's not complicated. I assert that the government has absolutely *no* right to say what people must or must not do on my land/building (other then basic chriminal acts).

Ok but you are talking about the smoking in restaurants debate. What if I wanted to light up an asbestos cigarette in a restaurant? And you have to walk through the smoking section to get to non smoking. The owner of the restaurant thinks smoking asbestos cigarettes are cool. And since he owns the restaurant, whatever he says goes right?

You have to look at health of the public. Thats how smoking bans are legal.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: |Chris| Ok but you are talking about the smoking in restaurants debate. What if I wanted to light up an asbestos cigarette in a restaurant? And you have to walk through the smoking section to get to non smoking. The owner of the restaurant thinks smoking asbestos cigarettes are cool. And since he owns the restaurant, whatever he says goes right? You have to look at health of the public. Thats how smoking bans are legal.

If a resteraunt owner is not looking out for your health, go elsewhere. It's no like non-smokers are a minority. If a resteraunt owner could decide between business from either smokers or non smokers, the choice would be obvious. Obviously there would be a demand for a few smoking resteraunts, and it would be filled. Capatalism baby!

It's my land or building. Just because I sell food, I don;t give up my right to set my ovn rules on smoking.

Besides, only the most addicted smoker can't keep off the tobacco for the hour that it takes to eat.

[Chris]

Quote by: Prometheus If a resteraunt owner is not looking out for your health, go elsewhere.

How many non smoking restaurants are there in Nashville, TN?

Quote by: Prometheus It's my land or building. Just because I sell food, I don;t give up my right to set my ovn rules on smoking.

But you must still conform to health and safety regulations. You cannot sell food that cockroaches have been laying their eggs in. So likewise, patrons should not have to be subjected to poisonous fumes.

Quote by: Prometheus Besides, only the most addicted smoker can't keep off the tobacco for the hour that it takes to eat.

Tennessee is filled with these twats. Even have to light up in the course of a half hour meal. I say tough shit. Go outside you inconsiderate cunt muppets.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: |Chris| How many non smoking restaurants are there in Nashville, TN?

Are you trying to be stupid? Why would you ask me a question about Nashville? I mean, I've been there for a week, but it was for the national DECA competition, wo I never left the peremisis of the Grand Old Opery hotel.

But you must still conform to health and safety regulations. You cannot sell food that cockroaches have been laying their eggs in. So likewise, patrons should not have to be subjected to poisonous fumes.

The only unique thing about a resteraunt is the food. If the food is safe, then the buisiness can be viewed equal with any other. If I have a buisiness, I have the right to let people conduct any legal activity I want to let them conduct. You don't have to come eat there.

Tennessee is filled with these twats. Even have to light up in the course of a half hour meal. I say tough shit. Go outside you inconsiderate cunt muppets.

Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on this one. You don't even seem to recognize smokers as people with equal rights. Grow up.

[Chris]

Quote by: Prometheus Are you trying to be stupid? Why would you ask me a question about Nashville? I mean, I've been there for a week, but it was for the national DECA competition, wo I never left the peremisis of the Grand Old Opery hotel.

Truly feel sorry for you. But unfortunately this is where I live. So where am I supposed to go out to eat? The answer is 0. There aren't any non smoking restaurants that I know of.

Quote by: Prometheus The only unique thing about a resteraunt is the food. If the food is safe, then the buisiness can be viewed equal with any other. If I have a buisiness, I have the right to let people conduct any legal activity I want to let them conduct. You don't have to come eat there.

OK fair point but at the same time, I counter with "hey there are no smoke free restaurants in most states." Slowly there are localities, but as far as I know, the only states that outlawed it are CA, MA, NY, NJ, and DE. So yes I don't have to eat there but what other choice do I have in Redneckville, USA? You would probably say "Well move" Well I did move here not by my choice, but because of financial reasons. I was glad to suck in all the smoke free air in MA for the years I was there when it was illegal to smoke in restaurants and bars. And it was wonderful.

Quote by: Prometheus Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on this one. You don't even seem to recognize smokers as people with equal rights. Grow up.

Agreed. But you and others must also recognize non smokers as people with equal rights. The instant someone lights up in a restaurant it turns the entire place into a smoking establishment. So Smokers have "rights" but they are infringing on a non smokers "rights" as well when they burn "a vegtable" (with toxic drugs etc added) and force people who care about thier health to breath in smoke from it.

[belverron]

Cook your own meals and pity the restaurant-owners who are losing your business.

[Chris]

that is one thing. Its not as if I eat out every day, more like once a week or less.

[kubedawg]

Wow, I expected a totally different outcome of this.

Anyway, my point is not to deprive people from their FREEDOM to do pretty much anything they want. But, is killing people legal? I think not. There are lots of laws that prohibit us from doing STUPID things in this great country of ours, and I think smoking should be on that list. It's a stupid habit, it only causes harm, and we DON'T need it. Would you like me to list all o the "potential" diseases from smoking cigarettes? It's quite a long list.

A lot of people have accepted cigarettes because not only do we see it every day of our lives, but, the cigarette companies try to get people to start smoking at an early age, where they are not able to think for themselves what is right/wrong. Because if they see their friends doing it, then it can't be wrong, can it?

That's the problem with people today. They are so bent out of shape on what kind of freedoms we should have and not really realizing one of the top killers in the USA.

There are other things as well that should be banned/find alternatives for like alcohol and sugar, but that's not what this discussion is about so please keep it on topic.

[Cephus]

While I don't necessarily think smoking should be illegal, I do think that smokers need to take full and complete responsibility for their actions. That means that they need to bear the complete financial cost of treatment should they get cancer from smoking. It shouldn't be my job, as a taxpayer, to pay for your stupidity. The same, of course, goes for alcoholism, etc. If you want to ruin your own health, that's fine. If you want to affect others, that's not. If you want someone else to pay for your own idiocy, forget it.

[belverron]

Freedom and responsibility go hand-in-hand, as Cephus says. I guess many people are willing to take less of the former for less of the latter. I'm not.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Cephus While I don't necessarily think smoking should be illegal, I do think that smokers need to take full and complete responsibility for their actions. That means that they need to bear the complete financial cost of treatment should they get cancer from smoking. It shouldn't be my job, as a taxpayer, to pay for your stupidity. The same, of course, goes for alcoholism, etc. If you want to ruin your own health, that's fine. If you want to affect others, that's not. If you want someone else to pay for your own idiocy, forget it.

I am totally behind this idea. Don't let these people who screw thier bodies up leech off of us.

[Athena]

Quote by: Cephus While I don't necessarily think smoking should be illegal, I do think that smokers need to take full and complete responsibility for their actions. That means that they need to bear the complete financial cost of treatment should they get cancer from smoking. It shouldn't be my job, as a taxpayer, to pay for your stupidity. The same, of course, goes for alcoholism, etc. If you want to ruin your own health, that's fine. If you want to affect others, that's not. If you want someone else to pay for your own idiocy, forget it.

Considering the health problems caused by smoking, it is the tobacco industry that should cover the cost. Health problems are a cost caused by the industry, so the industry should pay for it, and the industries that contribute to obesty should also pay their share of health cost, and industry that contributes to health problems should pay its share of the health cost. This is being responsible for the cause of health problems.

This does not negate individual responsibility for one's own health. If we make bad choices we will experience the bad consequences. No man made law can change that.

[Osborn F Enready]

Chris said:
Dont get me wrong, I don't want to make it illegal, but this is weak. they have proven that ciggs kill.
Doesn't change my position in my previous post. More people die from ciggs than pot or heroin.
I think you can agree with me that we should make those legal.

I say:
That was pure and refined sarcasm Chris, I thought you would notice that without the smiley, sorry.
Yes, you are correct that I agree with you on legalization of all drugs.

kubedawg said:
That's the problem with people today. They are so bent out of shape on what kind of freedoms we should have and not really realizing one of the top killers in the USA.

I say:
The problem with people today is people like you, who assume because something kills, or CAN kill, it should be illegalized instead of left where it should be, in the arena of PERSONAL CHOICE.

You obviously need to do some reading in the Bill of Rights, and about personal responsibility. If you don't like the challenges of life here in America, where rights are unalienable, and responsibility is a necessity, maybe you should look into moving into a socialist country?

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Athena Considering the health problems caused by smoking, it is the tobacco industry that should cover the cost. Health problems are a cost caused by the industry, so the industry should pay for it, and the industries that contribute to obesty should also pay their share of health cost, and industry that contributes to health problems should pay its share of the health cost. This is being responsible for the cause of health problems.

I'm sorry Athena. I normally really like reading what you have to say. But I've just got to let it out on this one - BULLSHIT!

This argument makes as much sence as having gun companies liable for murders or having McDonalds pay for triple bypasses. Big tobacco hasn't forced anyone to use thier products (true, thier advertising is deceptive and sexy). No one has made me smoke. I have a choice. If I had made the choice to smoke, I would expect to pay the full price. Asking the company who sold me the instrument of my destruction would be insulting to my free will and strength of charictar. If I am such a tool that I don't bear full responsibility for my own self destruction, then my life is pathetic indeed.

This does not negate individual responsibility for one's own health. If we make bad choices we will experience the bad consequences. No man made law can change that.

By definition you have not negated it, because you would only have big tobacco foot part of the bill, but any money they pay shifts the blame from the moron who uses thier deadly products. Buisinesses can't be warm fuzzy and nice. They only can exist to make money. If there is a demand out there, anyone has total right to fill that demand. As long as there are idiots out there, there will be a demand. All buisiness can do is fill that demand. The buisinesses are not responsible.