Man shot dead by police on Tube

[RickSp]

RickSP
Lets not gloss over his actions immediately preceding the shooting.

Yup, when in doubt blame the victim. Sure.

[Nono]

Are you suggesting that we can only believe what we see with our own eyes? We can no views on any topic to which we were not witnesses?

No.

Any other strawman questions while you're at it?

[RickSp]

No.

Any other strawman questions while you're at it?

Strawman? Hardly. Merely responding to your specific questions and their obvious implications.

[Nono]

My question was whether you had complete and absolute knowledge of the circs. Like the rest of us, you don't. Yet unlike some of us, you formulate judgements as if you did have that knowledge.

For my part, I'm reserving judgement. PatrickHenry seems to doubt the reliability of the inquiry. I see no reason to. If it turns out that this poor guy was the victim of trigger-happy cops, the Brits will have (once again) some tough questions to ask themselves about their police force. If it turns out that he was jumping turnstiles or otherwise acting in a reckless manner, it will have to be chalked up to Just One of Those Things And There but for the Grace of God...

In the meantime, a little less conclusion-happy judgementalism woulndn't go amiss.

[ibm]

we can only judge based on what’s known and what’s available to us. if technically not knowing all the details is the reason to hold off (and permanently i suspect), then we as citizens can only take what’s given. and that’s what the government want. and that is not the way it’s supposed to be. it would be ridiculous.

[Zeebadee]

My question was whether you had complete and absolute knowledge of the circs. Like the rest of us, you don't. Yet unlike some of us, you formulate judgements as if you did have that knowledge.

For my part, I'm reserving judgement. PatrickHenry seems to doubt the reliability of the inquiry. I see no reason to. If it turns out that this poor guy was the victim of trigger-happy cops, the Brits will have (once again) some tough questions to ask themselves about their police force. If it turns out that he was jumping turnstiles or otherwise acting in a reckless manner, it will have to be chalked up to Just One of Those Things And There but for the Grace of God...

In the meantime, a little less conclusion-happy judgementalism woulndn't go amiss.

I don't think anybody said the cops were trigger-happy. Rather, we are questioning the validity of an official policy that allows the execution style shooting of suspects. The cops aren't at fault here, if they are merely following official policy.

Also, I doubt entirely that we will ever get "complete and absolute knowledge of the circs.". The results of the official inquiry are predictable. It will go down as an "unfortunate" incident, the cops will be held blameless, and we will be told that these are difficult times. No one will ever be held accountable.

[Nono]

I don't think anybody said the cops were trigger-happy.

Rick did:

I would think that any Londoner should feel threatened by trigger happy plain clothes police who can legally imitate 007's "license to kill" with point blank shots to the head, apparently based on fashion and ethnicity.

[ibm]

to me the most scary thing is, this could happen to any average joe’s just like you and me next time, and could be soon. and i don’t want to be a victim in a “we’re sorry it’s too bad, but this is a difficult time and we’re fighting terror” – my and everyone else’s life is worth more than that.

[IDefekt]

he should've stopped when they told him to stopped. if he did, he'd definitely still be alive and most likely they wouldn't have even discovered that he was an illegal alien.


to play devil's advocate - what if this guy did have bombs on him? after all, does anyone here think that a terrorist would stop for the police? i ask this particularly of the "anti-police-state" crowd in the interest of seeing if they can offer a solution to that scenario.. (what if the guy did have bombs on him - what should they have done differently?)

that is the important question... "what if?" with no obvious presence of a bomb, could not anybody (under current prejudice) of middle eastern appearance, be viable for six shots in the head when chased by men in plain clothes claiming to be police officers? they followed the poor lad for 3 miles, including on a BUS! why not detain before this incident? "Terrorist Killed On Tube, Just in time".... makes a good headline, doesn't it?

[Chris]

they followed the poor lad for 3 miles, including on a BUS! why not detain before this incident? "Terrorist Killed On Tube, Just in time".... makes a good headline, doesn't it?

Now that is messed up. They should have isolated him in an alley or something. Searched him, and hopefully, they would have let him go.

[jose]

Commuter Anthony Larkin, who was also on the train at Stockwell station, told 5 Live he saw police chasing a man.

"I saw these police officers in uniform and out of uniform shouting 'get down, get down', and I saw this guy who appeared to have a bomb belt and wires coming out and people were panicking and I heard two shots being fired."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706913.stm
if check the name on google you get Anthony.Larkin@met.police.uk
click on the link and you get: Sorry, Anthony.Larkin@met.police.uk was not found. but check the google cache and theres even a nice photo of him as Lead scientist, MET police. Forensic scientist
. this story just gets stranger and stranger

[RickSp]

My question was whether you had complete and absolute knowledge of the circs. Like the rest of us, you don't. Yet unlike some of us, you formulate judgements as if you did have that knowledge.

For my part, I'm reserving judgement. PatrickHenry seems to doubt the reliability of the inquiry. I see no reason to. If it turns out that this poor guy was the victim of trigger-happy cops, the Brits will have (once again) some tough questions to ask themselves about their police force. If it turns out that he was jumping turnstiles or otherwise acting in a reckless manner, it will have to be chalked up to Just One of Those Things And There but for the Grace of God...

In the meantime, a little less conclusion-happy judgementalism woulndn't go amiss.

No, actually Nono, that wasn't your question. And even if it was, "complete and absolute knowledge" is not available to anyone. Period. We all have no choice but to make judgements based on the facts we have available to us. Like everyone else I know what I read from the news services. In most instances, I've read the BBC regarding this case. If later facts prove me wrong, I will be more than ready to apologise. Would you do the same?

I do think that the "shoot-to-kill" policy as adopted and implemented by the police is wrong, dead wrong, as indicated by the results in this case.

And if eight shots to the head inside a subway carriage doesn't qualify as "trigger happy," I'm not sure what does. If he had indeed been a suicide bomber, he would have, in all likelihood, set off the bomb before they could shoot him, given that the twenty policemen in pursuit allowed him onto two different forms of mass transit before shooting an innocent man nine times.