Cultures must mesh, not co-exsist.

[Mr.Vicchio]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162782,00.html

What caught my eye were the first and last articles listed.

In one, a cop in Canada is basically slammed for telling the Truth:

"Some of this behavior may be acceptable in the countries they are from," Det. Kelm told an interviewer. "Our message to them is that it's not acceptable here, and it won't be tolerated."

Can you guess exactly what she was charged with?

That's right, intolerance, and insensitivity. While most honest people would see this as a bit of an extreme, it's part of the underlying problem in Western Society today. We so fear offending others that even the mere suggestion that someone is offended sends officials scrambling to appologize.

Why?

In the second article,

Sometimes It's Just Not Amusing A British schoolmaster who publicly challenged the multi-culti's moral and cultural relativism 20 years ago found himself hounded out of office by people who accused him of being a racist, London's Daily Telegraph reminds us — a week after some 54 people were slaughtered in London. Ray Honeyford, a headmaster in the area from which the four bombers emerged, was "one of the first and most significant critics to challenge publicly multiculturalism's central tenet that all cultures in Britain are equally valid and no single tradition should be dominant." Writing in the right-wing Salisbury Review in the early 1980s, Honeyford criticized the local council's policy of educating ethnic minority children according to their own culture, predicting that the move would create divisions between white and Asian communities. For his prescience, Honeyford was forced out of his job in the mid-1980s after being told his attitudes were racist and that his insistence on integrating Asian children into the broader British culture was "dangerous and damaging."

is equally disturbing.

Society must have cohesion to exsist, when new members to a country are allowed to ignore the standards of society in favor of their origins, the society as a whole suffers. This is often reffered to as balkaniztion of a culture.

Common sense dictates that for a group of people to share a country, or society, there must be common grounds and bonds that bind them, without which there is conflict, division, and ultimately a break down in society.

When I was in elementary school, the term "Great Melting Pot" was used often, it was a source of pride in America that people all over the world could come to this country, and blend into it, adding a taste of thier cultural background into ours. We were all in the end, American's.

Today though, you never hear the phrase, it's all about respecting this culture or that people's "Heritage" and damn you if you offend them in anyway. Politicans rush to podiums to appologize, officials send sub-ordinates to "sensitivity training" (think brain washing) and we are told we must accept ever culture equally.

Excuse me, this is not so. If your so in need of your heritage that you feel it outwieghs the country's culture you live in... go back from whence you came. I am 1/2 italian, I take pride in that, but I am an American FIRST and foremost, that outwieghs any Italian ties I might have.

That's something we have forgotten in this day and age of non-offensiveness, and it's going ot be the death of us all. Radical elements that wish to supplant thier version of society on us, are using this weakness to their advantage and our ruin, wake up people.

[ibm]

when you see someone, do you see him/her as a human with a specific background first, or do you see him/her first as an american/italian, male/female, christian/muslim, etc.?

[tman_ndsu08]

I can't disagree more.

This is the land oppertunity, sure. You own private property, you work a job, then you have no limits on what you can do.

However, church and culture have no relevence to that or really anything that has to do with "society". Society is simply who you choose to hang out with and what you choose to make of it.

[Starboy]

It is dang funny that this post is being made by a person that misses no oppourtunity to cast everything into conservative and liberal categories and for what ever reason insisted that I was a secular humanist.

Starboy

[Samildanach]

I find myself to a point agreeing with mr V. What if a culture existed where they thought it was perfectly ok to have sex in the street whenever or however they wanted to.
Would you think it was ok to integrate that value into your everyday culture? And dont get into the 'on your own private property you can do what you like blah blah blah argument...lets say (just to make it even more interesting) that in their culture there is no such thing as private property...what then?
Also I think that to a certain degree a countries culture evolves through internal conflict about what is acceptable and what is not. It is also true that Mr V is pointing out some rather unpopular truths but they are truths...you never see someone rushing to defend intolerance however isn't a person entitled to their intolerant opinion without being discriminated against? Its a catch 22 if you discriminate against the discriminator then you are discriminating and can become subject to discrimination.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: ibm when you see someone, do you see him/her as a human with a specific background first, or do you see him/her first as an american/italian, male/female, christian/muslim, etc.?

I see them as a person... it's the actions by which I judge them, not their background.

as for Starboy and tman.... I see the post went over you're heads. This has nothing to do with liberal/conservative or religion and government.


But you two... right over your heads.

[rcne]

This co-exist rather than integration issue has been an issue for the EU for some time now. The separate communities established inside the host nation are not integrating into that society.

The political correct assumption of the host nation cultivation the subcultures as a gesture of multicultural acceptance has created pockets of self imposed isolation particularly among the Muslim cultures.

The interaction has to work both ways or it won't work at all. VanGothe is an example of the pocketing of a culture within a culture.

[ibm]

cultures "mesh" over time sort of naturally by themselves. we've been seeing plenty, especially here in the states. but they have to be allowed to "co-exist" before they can "mesh".

[Osborn F Enready]

Vic, you are so disillusioned.

This country was supposed to be a place for ALL IDEOLOGIES, ALL RACES, ALL RELIGIONS, ALL CULTURES, ALL LIBERTY LOVING, JUSTICE SEEKING INDIVIDUALS.

How do you not get this?

The only way to make it a place for all peoples with one uniting common thread of liberty and justice, is to have laws that reflect the VALUES of all people, which are the only two we can all agree on. LIBERTY AND JUSTICE.

Read our founding documents again and tell me how you CAN'T come away with that essential truth.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Osborn, wtf are you talking about?

I posted this on several forums, this is the only one where no one really understood... you guys are so wrapped up in the wrong things on this... bah.

[ibm]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio [url].... If your so in need of your heritage that you feel it outwieghs the country's culture you live in... go back from whence you came. I am 1/2 italian, I take pride in that, but I am an American FIRST and foremost, that outwieghs any Italian ties I might have. ...

osborn, i think this was mr. v's main point of this thread.

"if you don't like it here, get the hell out and go back to where you came from!"

[Osborn F Enready]

Vic, I am in somewhat agreement with you, I just think we differ on what we consider to be identifiable traits to the American Culture.

To me, the only truly identifiable American culture traits are these:

We encourage individuality.
We encourage AND are SUPPOSED to protect liberty.
We embrace justice, based on the equality of all men being created equal.
We believe ALL PEOPLE are blessed with inalienable rights, among these life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Vic said:
Common sense dictates that for a group of people to share a country, or society, there must be common grounds and bonds that bind them, without which there is conflict, division, and ultimately a break down in society.

I say:
Our culture is built from as you said, a melting pot of other cultures. Our culture is built on embracing all the differnces our varied cultures offer, but being unified in one common thread which is the essential truth of our existence. Our goals of liberty and justice for all.

Hotdogs, baseball, apple pie, are often used to identify American Culture, but they are only products of liberty and the conglomeration of different cultures mingling in a society of free ideas, and free speech.

People still refuse to see that the only reason we are where we are today, is because we are no longer a constitutional nation, and do not enforce our Constituonal limitations upon our own government.

It is not the "intrusion" of foreign culture into our own, since it was welcoming those cultures that built this nation. It is a core group of Americans turning all others in our society against themselves, through the perversion of our true ideals, and core essential common thread. Liberty and justice FOR ALL.

[Osborn F Enready]

So Vic, in essence I am saying this.

You said cultures must mesh, not co-exist.

I say as long as American culture meshes on these principles,

We encourage individuality.
We encourage AND are SUPPOSED to protect liberty.
We embrace justice, based on the equality of all men being created equal.
We believe ALL PEOPLE are blessed with inalienable rights, among these life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

American culture will do just fine. It is when we become fixated on everything in between, that we endanger our culture entirely, since anything else is a PRODUCT of that culture.

[Suburbanite]

Co-existing is not an option. Eventually we will all mesh. Time just isn't on your side on this one Vic.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Osborn, I didn't say you have to give up your heritage, and beliefs, but the Culture you move into.. let's say I moved to France, I wouldn't demand they speak English, I would learn French...

I wouldn't demand the laws of America over the French laws, I would adapt to those. But I'd still Bar-B-Que Steaks over hot coals and Mesquite Smoked.

[Osborn F Enready]

You have never, and will never see me advocate multiple home languages for out nation.

I STRONGLY disagree with the idea, or notion, that we should cater to those that don't speak out NATIONAL language. On this issue I agree with you a hundred percent.

There is a lot more wrapped up in the context of your original post though, and that is why I responded the way I did. I hate generalization, because it usually only causes more problems, both in debate and politics.

On an issue by issue account, I would bet the areas we differ are the areas that religion and politics bump heads, but I could be wrong.

May I ask what issues in particular, you feel are so threatening to American culture, that was brought here and is creating the problem?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Multiculturalism and the "tolerance and Diversity at any cost" mindset is what threatens me. The story of the Canadian Cop is a perfect example of what I am talking about. She stated truth, yet she was slammed for it.

The official in Chicago that used the word niggardly in a report, was fired for being racist... even though the word has no racist connetations...

The Atzlan movement is one that really frightens me, there are elected officials in California that actively push mECHA and it's goal of taking Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California Colorado Nevada and Utah back to creat a "bronze Nation"

Why? These people aren't forced to mesh, to blend, to melt into the pot that America once was. They arer told to honor Mexico and thier Latin roots over America... and that leads to this kinda BS.

You see where I am coming from now?

[castille]

Let's face it, your race and appearance is really all that matters.

Let's say an Asian guy from China goes to the US. He calls himself "American". He speaks American. He eats American food. But is he really American? Will other Americans accept him as American?

No, other Americans will always call him an Asian, or Chinese, because he doesn't look American. You have to be white (or black) to be American. Any other race is not American. The same goes for Europe.

Its fine and dandy to pretend you're American, but your heritage lies in your appearance. In the end, when shit hits the fan, only people who share your appearance will accept you. It's sad, but its a fact.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I'm sorry you're such a racist Castille, I judge people on who they are, not the color of thier skin.

[Osborn F Enready]

Vicchio said:
You see where I am coming from now?

I say:
Yes, but I attribute all of those things to problems in government and the examples they set by not addressing them, more than foreign cultural influence.

Our government has set precedent in lack of accountability, and how to make it work for those interested. Our laws contradict our constitution, our judges contradict the law, our representatives contradict their constituents.

Once hyposcrisy is accepted in the highest chairs of our government, it is hard to get mad at lower cases.