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Comrade · Feb 15, 2004, 07:09 pm

I live in Texas.
I attend a high school.
Thanks to wonderful legislation by the concerned representatives of the people, the government has decided that I am not patriotic enough. And that therefore, I need to recite the Pledge of Alliegance, the Texas Pledge, and hold a minute of silence (at school) to fix my wickedly apathetic ways.

This is incredibly superficial, and also a misplacement and misunderstanding of what patriotism is. F
I would rather our
representatives work toward some goal than create cheap theatrics to appear as honest, concerned American citizens working hard to bring morals back to society.

This is another example of the government trying to legislate what's in my head. Not really the government, but the pompous men whom an apathetic public elects mostly either because his TV commercials were more memorable or because he's the incumbent and they've heard his name before.

And, living in the Bible Belt, the moment of silence is remarkably transparent...

You can't force people to have morals. Shoving an archaic pledge down my throat does not make me any more patriotic than I was before (which was not inconsiderable).

Lava · Apr 22, 2004, 04:11 am

I guess politics depends on 2 things:
1. doing useful things for the country
2. spouting whatever bullshit will garner additioal support.

One has to do both to maximise support unfortunately. And certainly some seem to get by on no. 2 only. Like yourself, I thoroughly dislike having my life ruled over this stupid fluff. For me it does not generate support one bit.

Regards, Lava!

PatrickHenry · Apr 22, 2004, 03:20 pm

Comrade, what happens if you engage in passive disobedience to rules you object to? If you remain seated during the pledges? If you whisper or pass notes during a silent moment, without disturbing others?

(Disruption could be viewed as active disobedience and may incur more severe discipline.)

Would you suffer official discipline? Peer disapproval? Parental chastisement?

What would you be willing to endure to force the changes you seek?

SVMc · Apr 22, 2004, 03:30 pm

Maybe this is the forum to ask this question. I heard something about the United States giving tests to kids to determin the level of patriotism and / or if the teachers were teaching subversive thoughts. Has anyone heard anything about this or was it some loony conspiracy theory?

I'd look into quite civil disobedience or abstention if I were you.

Catch 22 · Apr 22, 2004, 04:01 pm

Here in New York I've never had such things happen but than again this is New York. People really don't give a shit about being patriotic unless it means more funds for post 911 reconstruction.

Suburbanite · Apr 22, 2004, 07:43 pm

I'm from LA. We don't even know how to get a Governor, but no, ever we don't have anything that goofy. Just what LAUSD needs, another test the students and teachers can't pass.

Comrade · Apr 22, 2004, 08:25 pm

No, only a few teachers take the pledges seriously, chastising anyone who doesn't stand and say them. It's worthless legislation. It accomplishes nothing and allows the government to stick its nose where it doesn't belong, in my beliefs.

argonak · Apr 22, 2004, 10:04 pm

Quote:

No, only a few teachers take the pledges seriously, chastising anyone who doesn't stand and say them. It's worthless legislation. It accomplishes nothing and allows the government to stick its nose where it doesn't belong, in my beliefs.

by attending a public school you are autonmatically putting some of your "rights" on hold, and the goernment is given permission to stick its nose in your beliefes. Ask somone whose beliefs don't hold with evolution how he feels when they're teaching it in science class. At least you are given the option of being a concientous objector. Most states don't even allow a "moment of silence" wherein some student's would be permitted to prey to whatever deity they might believe in.

Public school is unfair and badly designed "world". But it doesn't last forever, and once you're out you can start working to change the parts you don't like.

EDIT: clarity

Domino · Apr 22, 2004, 11:10 pm

One thing I've learned, in this state, at least, parents have enourmous power within the school. One of these days, I'm gonna have a kid in school, and I will be the Holy Terror of that school administration.

I'd be willing to bet that if your parent/guardian went to the school and told them that you don't have to say the pledge, they'd have no choice but to comply.

When I had to do this in school, I'd just make up my own pledge with the same number of syllables, usually starting with, "I pledge allegiance, under God, to Me and My Vision of the World's Future..."

Feb 15, 2004, 07:09 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	I live in Texas. I attend a high school. Thanks to wonderful legislation by the concerned representatives of the people, the government has decided that I am not patriotic enough. And that therefore, I need to recite the Pledge of Alliegance, the Texas Pledge, and hold a minute of silence (at school) to fix my wickedly apathetic ways. This is incredibly superficial, and also a misplacement and misunderstanding of what patriotism is. F I would rather our representatives work toward some goal than create cheap theatrics to appear as honest, concerned American citizens working hard to bring morals back to society. This is another example of the government trying to legislate what's in my head. Not really the government, but the pompous men whom an apathetic public elects mostly either because his TV commercials were more memorable or because he's the incumbent and they've heard his name before. And, living in the Bible Belt, the moment of silence is remarkably transparent... You can't force people to have morals. Shoving an archaic pledge down my throat does not make me any more patriotic than I was before (which was not inconsiderable). Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Apr 22, 2004, 03:20 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,435	Comrade, what happens if you engage in passive disobedience to rules you object to? If you remain seated during the pledges? If you whisper or pass notes during a silent moment, without disturbing others? (Disruption could be viewed as active disobedience and may incur more severe discipline.) Would you suffer official discipline? Peer disapproval? Parental chastisement? What would you be willing to endure to force the changes you seek? "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Apr 22, 2004, 03:30 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	Maybe this is the forum to ask this question. I heard something about the United States giving tests to kids to determin the level of patriotism and / or if the teachers were teaching subversive thoughts. Has anyone heard anything about this or was it some loony conspiracy theory? I'd look into quite civil disobedience or abstention if I were you. Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 22, 2004, 04:01 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Catch 22 Igneous Magma Location: New York Posts: 374	Here in New York I've never had such things happen but than again this is New York. People really don't give a shit about being patriotic unless it means more funds for post 911 reconstruction. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation are incapable of being conquered Martin Luther King Jr.

Apr 22, 2004, 08:25 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	No, only a few teachers take the pledges seriously, chastising anyone who doesn't stand and say them. It's worthless legislation. It accomplishes nothing and allows the government to stick its nose where it doesn't belong, in my beliefs. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Apr 22, 2004, 04:11 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Lava Igneous Magma Posts: 716	I guess politics depends on 2 things: 1. doing useful things for the country 2. spouting whatever bullshit will garner additioal support. One has to do both to maximise support unfortunately. And certainly some seem to get by on no. 2 only. Like yourself, I thoroughly dislike having my life ruled over this stupid fluff. For me it does not generate support one bit. Regards, Lava!

Apr 22, 2004, 07:43 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	I'm from LA. We don't even know how to get a Governor, but no, ever we don't have anything that goofy. Just what LAUSD needs, another test the students and teachers can't pass.

Apr 22, 2004, 11:10 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Domino I'm a pushover Posts: 334	One thing I've learned, in this state, at least, parents have enourmous power within the school. One of these days, I'm gonna have a kid in school, and I will be the Holy Terror of that school administration. I'd be willing to bet that if your parent/guardian went to the school and told them that you don't have to say the pledge, they'd have no choice but to comply. When I had to do this in school, I'd just make up my own pledge with the same number of syllables, usually starting with, "I pledge allegiance, under God, to Me and My Vision of the World's Future..." kill President attack nuclear bomb smuggle Echelon just recorded this message.