Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

NORMLperson · Feb 12, 2004, 06:57 pm

The Higher Education Act of 1998, drafted by Republican Mark Souder, prohibits students from recieving financial aid if they are found to be in possession of drugs, no matter if they are presumed to be drug dealers or buyers. So far, over 140,000 Students in the U.S. have lost their financial aid because of this law, and have lost their opportunity to better their lives through the means of higher education. This law is flawed because students who are able to pay their way through college through family income are not affected by this law and are presumably free to either buy or sell drugs without the risk of losing an opportunity to attend college. This law targets lower socio-economic families, because only those families apply through the FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid). Moreover, it presumes them to be the primary population of drug users in this country, which is a false claim. I invite any readers to post open and honest debates on this forum for further discussion. Thank you for your time.

SeanWah · Feb 12, 2004, 07:00 pm

We should take financial aid away from ALL students.

Government has no right to be subsidizing private education, ESPECIALLY with the public education system in such shambles.

Realistically, if you simplify it to a drugs issue, I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted simply because of drug possession. The drug war is a moronic method of control that Democrats and Republicans alike exercise over easily-exciteable soccer moms.

TheColdTruth · Feb 12, 2004, 07:14 pm

Considering how much more hazardous alcohol is compared to pot, and a few other durgs, it s laughable that drugs are illegal in any way, even the ones that are hazardous. Its just a trend that will fade in time, like religion and government.

Stigmata66 · Feb 12, 2004, 07:42 pm

Ahh the decriminalization of drugs would alot of things...

I agree that the government should quit subsidizing college students because it's just an indirect way of redistributing wealth. I for one hate the failure known as socialism; what an ingenius way to make people dependant on the government and not want to better themselves!

Mozart1220 · Feb 12, 2004, 08:34 pm

As a person who got my degree thanks to student loans and grants, I am grateful that there was something to help me. My family could not afford to send me, and thanks to Reagans destruction of the midwest economy, there was no way to work my way through. I got a job delivering pizza's to payfor my food, and I lived with a friend.

As for the war on drugs, let me just say that I find it obscene that a bunch of fat-cat polititians, sitting around smoking cigars after a three martini lunch can tell me marijuana is evil.

castille · Feb 12, 2004, 09:07 pm

Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees.

In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away.

War on drugs....if you're a pot-smoking hippy, you hate it. However, most people I know sell drugs rather than take, so they love the war on drugs. Supply and demand. The more powerful the war on drugs is, the higher drug prices, and the more profit to the people (well the poor people can benefit by selling drugs, see theres an alternative to getting a job).

NORMLperson · Feb 13, 2004, 12:24 am

[quote=castille,]Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees.

In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away.

QUOTE]

This law takes financial aid away before students get a chance to earn their degree. Their GPA has nothing to do with the law.

james? · Feb 13, 2004, 06:22 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees.

In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away.

War on drugs....if you're a pot-smoking hippy, you hate it. However, most people I know sell drugs rather than take, so they love the war on drugs. Supply and demand. The more powerful the war on drugs is, the higher drug prices, and the more profit to the people (well the poor people can benefit by selling drugs, see theres an alternative to getting a job).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Pot-smoking hippy? I'm tired of these motherfuckers who choose not to use drugs but feel they have to go and preach their sobriety to the whole fucking world. You don't make everyone's decisions, and you are not responsible for influencing anyone else's decisions.

And of course anyone who in any way relies on selling drugs loves the anti-legalization sentiment. In a dream society, drugs would be decriminalized but there would be no massive, centralized government to steal and regularize the drug economy. But, of course, were in America where were just kinda free.

Paavo · Feb 13, 2004, 06:58 pm

I don't know about legalizing drugs, but words like this make me mad;
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
...if you're a pot-smoking hippy...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Smoking cannabis does not make anyone a "hippy". Do you drink beer? Do you drink any alcohol? That'd make you a drunk, an alcoholic bum. Homeless, and begging for money. Nobody needs these generalizations. Have you ever tried smoking a joint? You won't become a junkie if you do, you know.

Bill Hodges · Feb 13, 2004, 08:04 pm

It's rather simple when you think about it. When a person is functioning under the gratuity of others then they must abide by the rules set forth that govern that gratuity.
In other words, if you wish to live under my roof, you abide by my rules. When you receive financial aid, you abide by the rules that govern the gratuity of that aid. If you do not have enough self control to abide by those rules, I suggest you not apply for it. It's not rocket science, folks.
If you don't like the rules, dig the money out of your own damned pockets, not mine.

NORMLperson · Feb 14, 2004, 02:48 am

Everyone deserves the right to access information in this country, even if they don't have money in their pockets. As a citizen of the U. S., I don't mind contributing part of my income to help my fellow citizens pursue higher education, higher truth if you will, regardless of what they do privately in their own home and who they do it with. It's also quite easy to look at the demographics of drug arrests. The current trends of heroin overdose deaths consist of mostly 24-40 year old white males, toppling the rate of all minority groups. This is because the parents of the minority groups of today are serving mandatory minimun sentences for non-violent drug offenses stemming from the Regan/Bush era Drug War. In turn, the youth have turned away from less hardcore drugs, like heroin and crack, and turned to marijuana. A primary reason for this is because it is impossible to overdose on marijuana. This particular trend and shift in drug of choice now highlights the white population's use of hardcore drugs, which are far more associated with violent crime than marijuana. Also, the HEA provision DOESN'T deny financial aid to students convicted of rape, DUI, or arson. So some college campuses, like those who tour NCAA bluechip players, hypothetically may have students who are sober from what you would consider 'drugs' but still have a couple drinks,(or not,) encounter a female and lose self control and land with a rape charge. Sure they may find themselves on grounds for dismissal, but they can still dig some pocket change out of your wallet to find another school that will accept him. In closing, denying students the opportunity to benefits from education to better their life assumes that we, as a nation, advocate ignorance in our society. For a first world nation, we still have so many people in our country who are illiterate. But guess which one of our neighboring nations has the lowest illiterate rate. Cuba! Castro must have been influenced from his Jesuit education.

castille · Feb 14, 2004, 07:04 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,)
I don't know about legalizing drugs, but words like this make me mad;

Smoking cannabis does not make anyone a "hippy". Do you drink beer? Do you drink any alcohol? That'd make you a drunk, an alcoholic bum. Homeless, and begging for money. Nobody needs these generalizations. Have you ever tried smoking a joint? You won't become a junkie if you do, you know.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I'm an alcoholic bum. So?

Bill Hodges · Feb 14, 2004, 07:33 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Everyone deserves the right to access information in this country, even if they don't have money in their pockets. As a citizen of the U. S., I don't mind contributing part of my income to help my fellow citizens pursue higher education, higher truth if you will, regardless of what they do privately in their own home and who they do it with.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Everyone in the United States does have access to information and an equal opportunity to achieve a higher education. No one prevents that. There are several ways in obtaining a higher private education. You can either pay for it out of your own pocket (this allows you to be your own person, to do anything you want in your own privacy until the school kicks you out), have the education "gifted" to you through grants (some have requirements that must be met), scholarships (which have some rules governing them), or through education funding (which has a lot of rules governing its use).
If a person is too inept, stupid, or disrespectful to follow and abide by the rules set forth for the use of financial aid then I suggest they not apply for the aid in the first place. If they want to buy, sell, trade, or share herb or or other substances while going to school, then they need to forego the financial aid option and instead seek other ways of funding their education.
This is not brain surgery. No one owes anyone a free ride. If you want to dig into other people's pockets for your own benefit, then you need to abide by the rules set forth by those people allowing you to use their money. Again, if you are too stupid or inept to abide by those rules, find alternative sources to fund your pursuits.

Matthew Cromer · Feb 14, 2004, 08:46 am

Financial aid -- that's where working class taxpayers foot the bill for middle class folks to climb up the ladder above them.

Almost as bad as "farm aid" where we all foot the bill for rural multi-millionaires to not grow crops.

As for the war on (some) drugs, well it's a good thing for drug dealers and corrupt law enforcement officers.

NORMLperson · Feb 15, 2004, 02:06 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bill Hodges,)

If they want to buy, sell, trade, or share herb or or other substances while going to school, then they need to forego the financial aid option and instead seek other ways of funding their education.
... No one owes anyone a free ride. If you want to dig into other people's pockets for your own benefit, then you need to abide by the rules set forth by those people allowing you to use their money. Again, if you are too stupid or inept to abide by those rules, find alternative sources to fund your pursuits.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

College loans aren't free rides. In fact, they would be a lot worse for a fiscal conservative because there's a heavy amount of interest that accrues when the student pays it back. That means you pay more for college than the student who pays for it out of their parent's pocket. But for students who use drugs all through college (particularly marijuana,) and recieve student loans, they eventually prove, through academic merit, that they are smart enough to earn a degree or two. Heck, they may have taken the extra step and set up an internship and/or job offer after their graduation and actually blend in with the rest of society and make money for themselves while paying back their loan. They might have also have spent a good portion of their money on bars, or on marijuana, grown locally in a friend's residence, not from a 'cartel' in Juarez, Mexico. This has been just an example of a student, not able to afford college because their parents aren't set up to afford it. Perhaps this student realizes that the rules created for using federal aid are flawed because they exempt students that are convicted of rape, arson or have problems with alcohol addiction.

AnonT · Feb 15, 2004, 05:45 am

Well, I voted "no" because I don't think students should be denied financial aid due strictly to drug use. Instead, I think students should be denied financial aid because it's theft.
If you want to pay for someone's education, donate to a scholarship fund, but don't force me to pay for other people's education. I'm working my way through college. By carefully spending my money, I'm able to make rent, bills, and tuition just off my one job at Taco Bell. My parents give me very little help with tuition, and I have yet to take financial aid or student loans. Now, I'm not going to the greatest of colleges, so my tuition is lower than most people's ($3-4000/year), but I'm still able to meet it, and I'd be more able to if the government wasn't taking 30-40% of my income in taxes. It can be done.

Anyway, Bill, consider this: Many of the people paying for that financial aid are marijuana smokers. We're not all burned out old hippies whose only income is from selling beads to other old hippies. Most of us have jobs, and contribute to society. If we're paying for financial aid, don't we have a right to use it?

james? · Feb 16, 2004, 01:54 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bill Hodges,)
It's rather simple when you think about it. When a person is functioning under the gratuity of others then they must abide by the rules set forth that govern that gratuity.
In other words, if you wish to live under my roof, you abide by my rules. When you receive financial aid, you abide by the rules that govern the gratuity of that aid. If you do not have enough self control to abide by those rules, I suggest you not apply for it. It's not rocket science, folks.
If you don't like the rules, dig the money out of your own damned pockets, not mine.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

We are not questioning whether or not they should be able to do this, but instead impugning their decision, which is rightfully theirs, to take away financial aide from students convicted of drug possession.

Impenitent · Feb 16, 2004, 04:46 pm

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime...

if you have to have a loan, don't screw up your getting the loan by getting busted...

then again, you get "free" school in prison...

Mozart1220 · Feb 16, 2004, 05:10 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Matthew Cromer,)
Financial aid -- that's where working class taxpayers foot the bill for middle class folks to climb up the ladder above them.

Almost as bad as "farm aid" where we all foot the bill for rural multi-millionaires to not grow crops.

As for the war on (some) drugs, well it's a good thing for drug dealers and corrupt law enforcement officers.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Come on out here to Iowa and let's look for some multi-millionares. You won't find any with their hands in the dirt 7 days a week so you can eat here. You ever even BEEN to a farm? Do you have any idea what a committment it takes? If you have milk cows you can give up vacation, or even a day off.

"Farm Aid" was to help familiy farmers keep the land that has often been in the family for generations. The Reagan administration practicly killed the family farm in America, and caused a depression rivaling 1929 in the midwest.

Enjoy your dinner tonight. You can bet it wasn't a "multi -millionare" that provided it for you.

dotcoma · Feb 16, 2004, 06:34 pm

[quote=Impenitent,]if you can't do the time, don't do the crime...
QUOTE]

It's only a crime because D.C. wants it that way.

View Poll Results: Should we take away financial aid from students who need it if they are ONLY found to be in possessi
Yes, we should.	8	18.18%
No, we should not.	36	81.82%
I really don't know anything about drugs and drug usage.	0	0%
Voters: 44. You may not vote

Feb 12, 2004, 07:14 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
TheColdTruth Alive Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 100	Considering how much more hazardous alcohol is compared to pot, and a few other durgs, it s laughable that drugs are illegal in any way, even the ones that are hazardous. Its just a trend that will fade in time, like religion and government. If it works, and it's stupid, it's not stupid.

Feb 12, 2004, 07:42 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Stigmata66 Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 74	Ahh the decriminalization of drugs would alot of things... I agree that the government should quit subsidizing college students because it's just an indirect way of redistributing wealth. I for one hate the failure known as socialism; what an ingenius way to make people dependant on the government and not want to better themselves! Hate heals, you should try it some time! Fukin Arch Enemy!

Feb 12, 2004, 08:34 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	As a person who got my degree thanks to student loans and grants, I am grateful that there was something to help me. My family could not afford to send me, and thanks to Reagans destruction of the midwest economy, there was no way to work my way through. I got a job delivering pizza's to payfor my food, and I lived with a friend. As for the war on drugs, let me just say that I find it obscene that a bunch of fat-cat polititians, sitting around smoking cigars after a three martini lunch can tell me marijuana is evil. Big Jr is watching you!

Feb 12, 2004, 09:07 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees. In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away. War on drugs....if you're a pot-smoking hippy, you hate it. However, most people I know sell drugs rather than take, so they love the war on drugs. Supply and demand. The more powerful the war on drugs is, the higher drug prices, and the more profit to the people (well the poor people can benefit by selling drugs, see theres an alternative to getting a job). Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Feb 12, 2004, 06:57 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	The Higher Education Act of 1998, drafted by Republican Mark Souder, prohibits students from recieving financial aid if they are found to be in possession of drugs, no matter if they are presumed to be drug dealers or buyers. So far, over 140,000 Students in the U.S. have lost their financial aid because of this law, and have lost their opportunity to better their lives through the means of higher education. This law is flawed because students who are able to pay their way through college through family income are not affected by this law and are presumably free to either buy or sell drugs without the risk of losing an opportunity to attend college. This law targets lower socio-economic families, because only those families apply through the FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid). Moreover, it presumes them to be the primary population of drug users in this country, which is a false claim. I invite any readers to post open and honest debates on this forum for further discussion. Thank you for your time.

Feb 12, 2004, 07:00 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
SeanWah Molten Ash Posts: 47	We should take financial aid away from ALL students. Government has no right to be subsidizing private education, ESPECIALLY with the public education system in such shambles. Realistically, if you simplify it to a drugs issue, I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted simply because of drug possession. The drug war is a moronic method of control that Democrats and Republicans alike exercise over easily-exciteable soccer moms.

Feb 13, 2004, 12:24 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	[quote=castille,]Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees. In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away. QUOTE] This law takes financial aid away before students get a chance to earn their degree. Their GPA has nothing to do with the law.

Feb 13, 2004, 06:22 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,) Students don't need financial aid if they fail their degrees. In Australia, anyone who fails a degree gets financial aid taken away. War on drugs....if you're a pot-smoking hippy, you hate it. However, most people I know sell drugs rather than take, so they love the war on drugs. Supply and demand. The more powerful the war on drugs is, the higher drug prices, and the more profit to the people (well the poor people can benefit by selling drugs, see theres an alternative to getting a job).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Pot-smoking hippy? I'm tired of these motherfuckers who choose not to use drugs but feel they have to go and preach their sobriety to the whole fucking world. You don't make everyone's decisions, and you are not responsible for influencing anyone else's decisions. And of course anyone who in any way relies on selling drugs loves the anti-legalization sentiment. In a dream society, drugs would be decriminalized but there would be no massive, centralized government to steal and regularize the drug economy. But, of course, were in America where were just kinda free.

Feb 13, 2004, 06:58 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	I don't know about legalizing drugs, but words like this make me mad; </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by ...if you're a pot-smoking hippy...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Smoking cannabis does not make anyone a "hippy". Do you drink beer? Do you drink any alcohol? That'd make you a drunk, an alcoholic bum. Homeless, and begging for money. Nobody needs these generalizations. Have you ever tried smoking a joint? You won't become a junkie if you do, you know.

Feb 13, 2004, 08:04 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Bill Hodges Sedimentary Rock Location: Oklahoma City, OK/Amarillo, TX Posts: 3	It's rather simple when you think about it. When a person is functioning under the gratuity of others then they must abide by the rules set forth that govern that gratuity. In other words, if you wish to live under my roof, you abide by my rules. When you receive financial aid, you abide by the rules that govern the gratuity of that aid. If you do not have enough self control to abide by those rules, I suggest you not apply for it. It's not rocket science, folks. If you don't like the rules, dig the money out of your own damned pockets, not mine. <span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>Conservatism requires one to choose to strive for success and act for themselves. Socialism forces all to act without inspiration.</span></span></span>

Feb 14, 2004, 02:48 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	Everyone deserves the right to access information in this country, even if they don't have money in their pockets. As a citizen of the U. S., I don't mind contributing part of my income to help my fellow citizens pursue higher education, higher truth if you will, regardless of what they do privately in their own home and who they do it with. It's also quite easy to look at the demographics of drug arrests. The current trends of heroin overdose deaths consist of mostly 24-40 year old white males, toppling the rate of all minority groups. This is because the parents of the minority groups of today are serving mandatory minimun sentences for non-violent drug offenses stemming from the Regan/Bush era Drug War. In turn, the youth have turned away from less hardcore drugs, like heroin and crack, and turned to marijuana. A primary reason for this is because it is impossible to overdose on marijuana. This particular trend and shift in drug of choice now highlights the white population's use of hardcore drugs, which are far more associated with violent crime than marijuana. Also, the HEA provision DOESN'T deny financial aid to students convicted of rape, DUI, or arson. So some college campuses, like those who tour NCAA bluechip players, hypothetically may have students who are sober from what you would consider 'drugs' but still have a couple drinks,(or not,) encounter a female and lose self control and land with a rape charge. Sure they may find themselves on grounds for dismissal, but they can still dig some pocket change out of your wallet to find another school that will accept him. In closing, denying students the opportunity to benefits from education to better their life assumes that we, as a nation, advocate ignorance in our society. For a first world nation, we still have so many people in our country who are illiterate. But guess which one of our neighboring nations has the lowest illiterate rate. Cuba! Castro must have been influenced from his Jesuit education.

Feb 14, 2004, 07:04 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,) I don't know about legalizing drugs, but words like this make me mad; Smoking cannabis does not make anyone a "hippy". Do you drink beer? Do you drink any alcohol? That'd make you a drunk, an alcoholic bum. Homeless, and begging for money. Nobody needs these generalizations. Have you ever tried smoking a joint? You won't become a junkie if you do, you know.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I'm an alcoholic bum. So? Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Feb 14, 2004, 07:33 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Bill Hodges Sedimentary Rock Location: Oklahoma City, OK/Amarillo, TX Posts: 3	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Everyone deserves the right to access information in this country, even if they don't have money in their pockets. As a citizen of the U. S., I don't mind contributing part of my income to help my fellow citizens pursue higher education, higher truth if you will, regardless of what they do privately in their own home and who they do it with.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Everyone in the United States *does* have access to information and an equal opportunity to achieve a higher education. No one prevents that. There are several ways in obtaining a higher private education. You can either pay for it out of your own pocket (this allows you to be your own person, to do anything you want in your own privacy until the school kicks you out), have the education "gifted" to you through grants (some have requirements that must be met), scholarships (which have some rules governing them), or through education funding (which has a lot of rules governing its use). If a person is too inept, stupid, or disrespectful to follow and abide by the rules set forth for the use of financial aid then I suggest they not apply for the aid in the first place. If they want to buy, sell, trade, or share herb or or other substances while going to school, then they need to forego the financial aid option and instead seek other ways of funding their education. This is not brain surgery. No one *owes* anyone a free ride. If you want to dig into other people's pockets for your own benefit, then you need to abide by the rules set forth by those people allowing you to use *their* money. Again, if you are too stupid or inept to abide by those rules, find alternative sources to fund your pursuits. <span style='font-family:Times'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>Conservatism requires one to choose to strive for success and act for themselves. Socialism forces all to act without inspiration.</span></span></span>

Feb 14, 2004, 08:46 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
Matthew Cromer Sedimentary Rock Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 10	Financial aid -- that's where working class taxpayers foot the bill for middle class folks to climb up the ladder above them. Almost as bad as "farm aid" where we all foot the bill for rural multi-millionaires to not grow crops. As for the war on (some) drugs, well it's a good thing for drug dealers and corrupt law enforcement officers.

Feb 15, 2004, 02:06 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bill Hodges,) If they want to buy, sell, trade, or share herb or or other substances while going to school, then they need to forego the financial aid option and instead seek other ways of funding their education. ... No one *owes* anyone a free ride. If you want to dig into other people's pockets for your own benefit, then you need to abide by the rules set forth by those people allowing you to use *their* money. Again, if you are too stupid or inept to abide by those rules, find alternative sources to fund your pursuits.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> College loans aren't free rides. In fact, they would be a lot worse for a fiscal conservative because there's a heavy amount of interest that accrues when the student pays it back. That means you pay more for college than the student who pays for it out of their parent's pocket. But for students who use drugs all through college (particularly marijuana,) and recieve student loans, they eventually prove, through academic merit, that they are smart enough to earn a degree or two. Heck, they may have taken the extra step and set up an internship and/or job offer after their graduation and actually blend in with the rest of society and make money for themselves while paying back their loan. They might have also have spent a good portion of their money on bars, or on marijuana, grown locally in a friend's residence, not from a 'cartel' in Juarez, Mexico. This has been just an example of a student, not able to afford college because their parents aren't set up to afford it. Perhaps this student realizes that the rules created for using federal aid are flawed because they exempt students that are convicted of rape, arson or have problems with alcohol addiction.

Feb 15, 2004, 05:45 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	Well, I voted "no" because I don't think students should be denied financial aid due strictly to drug use. Instead, I think students should be denied financial aid because it's theft. If you want to pay for someone's education, donate to a scholarship fund, but don't force me to pay for other people's education. I'm working my way through college. By carefully spending my money, I'm able to make rent, bills, and tuition just off my one job at Taco Bell. My parents give me very little help with tuition, and I have yet to take financial aid or student loans. Now, I'm not going to the greatest of colleges, so my tuition is lower than most people's ($3-4000/year), but I'm still able to meet it, and I'd be more able to if the government wasn't taking 30-40% of my income in taxes. It can be done. Anyway, Bill, consider this: Many of the people paying for that financial aid are marijuana smokers. We're not all burned out old hippies whose only income is from selling beads to other old hippies. Most of us have jobs, and contribute to society. If we're paying for financial aid, don't we have a right to use it?

Feb 16, 2004, 01:54 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Bill Hodges,) It's rather simple when you think about it. When a person is functioning under the gratuity of others then they must abide by the rules set forth that govern that gratuity. In other words, if you wish to live under my roof, you abide by my rules. When you receive financial aid, you abide by the rules that govern the gratuity of that aid. If you do not have enough self control to abide by those rules, I suggest you not apply for it. It's not rocket science, folks. If you don't like the rules, dig the money out of your own damned pockets, not mine.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> We are not questioning whether or not they should be able to do this, but instead impugning their decision, which is rightfully theirs, to take away financial aide from students convicted of drug possession.

Feb 16, 2004, 04:46 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	if you can't do the time, don't do the crime... if you have to have a loan, don't screw up your getting the loan by getting busted... then again, you get "free" school in prison... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 16, 2004, 05:10 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Matthew Cromer,) Financial aid -- that's where working class taxpayers foot the bill for middle class folks to climb up the ladder above them. Almost as bad as "farm aid" where we all foot the bill for rural multi-millionaires to not grow crops. As for the war on (some) drugs, well it's a good thing for drug dealers and corrupt law enforcement officers.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Come on out here to Iowa and let's look for some multi-millionares. You won't find any with their hands in the dirt 7 days a week so you can eat here. You ever even BEEN to a farm? Do you have any idea what a committment it takes? If you have milk cows you can give up vacation, or even a day off. "Farm Aid" was to help familiy farmers keep the land that has often been in the family for generations. The Reagan administration practicly killed the family farm in America, and caused a depression rivaling 1929 in the midwest. Enjoy your dinner tonight. You can bet it wasn't a "multi -millionare" that provided it for you. Big Jr is watching you!

Feb 16, 2004, 06:34 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	[quote=Impenitent,]if you can't do the time, don't do the crime... QUOTE] It's only a crime because D.C. wants it that way.