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nalex · Feb 19, 2004, 09:57 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
I suppose making an item taboo does somehow attract the rebels. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

And making something harmful like smoking tobacco or sending your children to fight a war attracts the compliant sort who like to do what they are told?

ceg · Feb 24, 2004, 06:30 pm

We should legalize all drugs. The only reason we haven't is the lock the pharmaceutical companies have on Repugs in Congress. Legalize them, tax them, this will reduce street crime. Put the billions spent on the failed "Drug War" into social programs and reducing the federal deficit.

NORMLperson · Feb 26, 2004, 05:49 pm

Good point ceg. If anyone has been paying attention to the news, particularly in the bay area of Northern California, Oakland is trying to push for city officials to decriminalize and tax marijuana for adults, to put the violent drug dealers out of business. This is what our federal government is trying to avoid, even though this is what had to happen to end the violence due to prohibition. Then perhaps the government will have a better stance in trying to reduce drug usage with health threats (like cigarettes and alcohol) instead of incarceration. Imagine if alcohol was still illegal today, but the bootleggers where still running their blackmarket deals. There would still be violent business discrepancies, and massive witch hunts due to violations of civil liberties, with about a half million 'alcohol-users' behind bars. Oh wait, that does exist today, but it's not with alcohol, but marijuana.

commonsense · Feb 27, 2004, 03:45 pm

The myth being swallowed by almost everyone in the U.S. is that "education" is what is taking place in our schools and colleges.

The people subsidizing what really IS going on there damn sure must know why they're doing it.

commonsense · Feb 27, 2004, 03:48 pm

Oh, by the way... am I the only pot, coke and occasional heroin using college student out here that isn't a lefty?

james? · Feb 27, 2004, 05:11 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,)
Oh, by the way... am I the only pot, coke and occasional heroin using college student out here that isn't a lefty?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

While I'm in the same bag (lol no pun intended), just highschool, but I'm a libertarian and consider myself more right than left... probably.

commonsense · Feb 27, 2004, 10:08 pm

Well, james, If you're a Libertarian... you're neither. You just want to be left alone, leave everybody else alone, don't want to be bullshitted and certainly don't want to pay (taxes) for the privelege!
You think the U.S. Constitution is a miracle philosophy that concedes only the least bit of power and money to those you elect to do the minimum intrusion of freedom to accomplish things you can't do foryourself like strictly circumscribed national defense (not imperialism or the "neo-con" military protection of economic concerns) , maybe regulating where dams can be built, possibly emergency epidemiological dept, minting coins and keeping the currency reliable from counterfeit, and providing an incorruptible judiciary to settle contract disputes between free equal men.
You believe that in a society unfettered as socially possible by even the least bit of goverment interference, that a miracle of human spirit results that make people be as ingenious as they can, instead of running around trying to fit the rules imposed on them, and that when they are free to choose whether to be armed without striction, society naturally evolves more civily, and there is less crime and corruption.
You are more honest because there are no "social" rules except those that are natural. You grow and smoke what you want, nobody with a badge sticks a gun in your face and empties your pockets or kicks down your door.

It is spiritual to mind one's own business and agree that everyone else will, too.

It's not an impossible dream.

Don't overindulge in drugs too often, the world needs you.

Read Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" the pages on governments, at least, understand how all of prior history man has been under someone's thumb to varying degree, and no sweet-sounding slogan is good enough to submit to that, because you don't need a bloated bureaucrat's armed official hoodlum to force you to be humanitarian, or green, or liberal, or progressive... while he picks your pocket and your paycheck and your soul to pretend to save humanity. Humanity loves itself when the power is equal and you're free to achieve honestly. Tell your friends.

dotcoma · Mar 14, 2004, 03:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,)
Well, james, If you're a Libertarian... you're neither. You just want to be left alone, leave everybody else alone, don't want to be bullshitted and certainly don't want to pay (taxes) for the privelege!
You think the U.S. Constitution is a miracle philosophy that concedes only the least bit of power and money to those you elect to do the minimum intrusion of freedom to accomplish things you can't do foryourself like strictly circumscribed national defense (not imperialism or the "neo-con" military protection of economic concerns) , maybe regulating where dams can be built, possibly emergency epidemiological dept, minting coins and keeping the currency reliable from counterfeit, and providing an incorruptible judiciary to settle contract disputes between free equal men.
You believe that in a society unfettered as socially possible by even the least bit of goverment interference, that a miracle of human spirit results that make people be as ingenious as they can, instead of running around trying to fit the rules imposed on them, and that when they are free to choose whether to be armed without striction, society naturally evolves more civily, and there is less crime and corruption.
You are more honest because there are no "social" rules except those that are natural. You grow and smoke what you want, nobody with a badge sticks a gun in your face and empties your pockets or kicks down your door.

It is spiritual to mind one's own business and agree that everyone else will, too.

It's not an impossible dream.

Don't overindulge in drugs too often, the world needs you.

Read Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" the pages on governments, at least, understand how all of prior history man has been under someone's thumb to varying degree, and no sweet-sounding slogan is good enough to submit to that, because you don't need a bloated bureaucrat's armed official hoodlum to force you to be humanitarian, or green, or liberal, or progressive... while he picks your pocket and your paycheck and your soul to pretend to save humanity. Humanity loves itself when the power is equal and you're free to achieve honestly. Tell your friends.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

EXCELLENT post...

NORMLperson · Mar 15, 2004, 08:38 pm

Thanks for your imput Rox, but I'd just like to see what points you would agree with specifically and disagree with. I'm simply just asking to stimulate more debating. Thanks for posting.

Mia · Mar 15, 2004, 09:33 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (AnonT,)
Well, I voted "no" because I don't think students should be denied financial aid due strictly to drug use. Instead, I think students should be denied financial aid because it's theft.
If you want to pay for someone's education, donate to a scholarship fund, but don't force me to pay for other people's education. I'm working my way through college. By carefully spending my money, I'm able to make rent, bills, and tuition just off my one job at Taco Bell. My parents give me very little help with tuition, and I have yet to take financial aid or student loans. Now, I'm not going to the greatest of colleges, so my tuition is lower than most people's ($3-4000/year), but I'm still able to meet it, and I'd be more able to if the government wasn't taking 30-40% of my income in taxes. It can be done.

Anyway, Bill, consider this: Many of the people paying for that financial aid are marijuana smokers. We're not all burned out old hippies whose only income is from selling beads to other old hippies. Most of us have jobs, and contribute to society. If we're paying for financial aid, don't we have a right to use it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Only a state school would have tuition that low - so you are using tax dollars regardless. You'd have to go to a private university not to. If there were no taxes to support your state school, you'd have no option right now besides a private school that you couldn't afford even if the government took no taxes from you!

Mia · Mar 16, 2004, 04:40 am

Sorry, I didn't answer the question in this post. No, I would not support that law at all. I started to say yes - I am against drugs.

However, I know that almost everyone at least smoked pot one time to try it, and this often times occurs in college.

So kids on the right track, getting an education, should not be derailed over this.

For the people who say "it's our dime..." actually it's their dime too, when they graduate and have the ability to pay four times as many taxes for the rest of their lives than if they have to drop out.

Student loans HAVE to be paid back. The Federal government will take your tax refund, or go into your ss benefits if they have to. This is not a free ride.

Someone else said if drug use is a real problem for some, there will be other consequences so the law will only affect those for whom it is NOT a problem - most likely just kids experimenting.

Mar 28, 2004, 01:57 am

College loans are not granted by the government. The feds guarantee the loan to whichever bank you borrow the money from. IN other words you borrow from Bank I and Uncle Sam tells the bank they will cover the loan if you default.
I don't really like the government involved in such activity but I did borrow money to finish college. I knew many drug using students on campus who have turned out to be fine upstanding, productive, tax paying citizens. Many would not have graduated without student loans. I find this new law rediculous and only a bone tossed to the social conservative, theocratic right wing of the Republican party. Why can't the mut cases from yhe radical wings of the political spectrum just leave the rest of us alone?

View Poll Results: Should we take away financial aid from students who need it if they are ONLY found to be in possessi
Yes, we should.	8	18.18%
No, we should not.	36	81.82%
I really don't know anything about drugs and drug usage.	0	0%
Voters: 44. You may not vote

Feb 19, 2004, 09:57 pm	#41 (permalink) (top)
nalex Sedimentary Rock Posts: 24	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) I suppose making an item taboo does somehow attract the rebels. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> And making something harmful like smoking tobacco or sending your children to fight a war attracts the compliant sort who like to do what they are told?

Feb 27, 2004, 03:45 pm	#44 (permalink) (top)
commonsense Igneous Magma Posts: 333	The myth being swallowed by almost everyone in the U.S. is that "education" is what is taking place in our schools and colleges. The people subsidizing what really IS going on there damn sure must know why they're doing it. The Porcupine is a great symbol. READ THOMAS PAINE, "RIGHTS OF MAN" TO A KID

Feb 27, 2004, 03:48 pm	#45 (permalink) (top)
commonsense Igneous Magma Posts: 333	Oh, by the way... am I the only pot, coke and occasional heroin using college student out here that isn't a lefty? The Porcupine is a great symbol. READ THOMAS PAINE, "RIGHTS OF MAN" TO A KID

Feb 27, 2004, 05:11 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,) Oh, by the way... am I the only pot, coke and occasional heroin using college student out here that isn't a lefty?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> While I'm in the same bag (lol no pun intended), just highschool, but I'm a libertarian and consider myself more right than left... probably.

Feb 24, 2004, 06:30 pm	#42 (permalink) (top)
ceg Sedimentary Rock Posts: 13	We should legalize all drugs. The only reason we haven't is the lock the pharmaceutical companies have on Repugs in Congress. Legalize them, tax them, this will reduce street crime. Put the billions spent on the failed "Drug War" into social programs and reducing the federal deficit.

Feb 26, 2004, 05:49 pm	#43 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	Good point ceg. If anyone has been paying attention to the news, particularly in the bay area of Northern California, Oakland is trying to push for city officials to decriminalize and tax marijuana for adults, to put the violent drug dealers out of business. This is what our federal government is trying to avoid, even though this is what had to happen to end the violence due to prohibition. Then perhaps the government will have a better stance in trying to reduce drug usage with health threats (like cigarettes and alcohol) instead of incarceration. Imagine if alcohol was still illegal today, but the bootleggers where still running their blackmarket deals. There would still be violent business discrepancies, and massive witch hunts due to violations of civil liberties, with about a half million 'alcohol-users' behind bars. Oh wait, that does exist today, but it's not with alcohol, but marijuana.

Feb 27, 2004, 10:08 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
commonsense Igneous Magma Posts: 333	Well, james, If you're a Libertarian... you're neither. You just want to be left alone, leave everybody else alone, don't want to be bullshitted and certainly don't want to pay (taxes) for the privelege! You think the U.S. Constitution is a miracle philosophy that concedes only the least bit of power and money to those you elect to do the minimum intrusion of freedom to accomplish things you can't do foryourself like strictly circumscribed national defense (not imperialism or the "neo-con" military protection of economic concerns) , maybe regulating where dams can be built, possibly emergency epidemiological dept, minting coins and keeping the currency reliable from counterfeit, and providing an incorruptible judiciary to settle contract disputes between free equal men. You believe that in a society unfettered as socially possible by even the least bit of goverment interference, that a miracle of human spirit results that make people be as ingenious as they can, instead of running around trying to fit the rules imposed on them, and that when they are free to choose whether to be armed without striction, society naturally evolves more civily, and there is less crime and corruption. You are more honest because there are no "social" rules except those that are natural. You grow and smoke what you want, nobody with a badge sticks a gun in your face and empties your pockets or kicks down your door. It is spiritual to mind one's own business and agree that everyone else will, too. It's not an impossible dream. Don't overindulge in drugs too often, the world needs you. Read Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" the pages on governments, at least, understand how all of prior history man has been under someone's thumb to varying degree, and no sweet-sounding slogan is good enough to submit to that, because you don't need a bloated bureaucrat's armed official hoodlum to force you to be humanitarian, or green, or liberal, or progressive... while he picks your pocket and your paycheck and your soul to pretend to save humanity. Humanity loves itself when the power is equal and you're free to achieve honestly. Tell your friends. The Porcupine is a great symbol. READ THOMAS PAINE, "RIGHTS OF MAN" TO A KID

Mar 14, 2004, 03:04 pm	#48 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,) Well, james, If you're a Libertarian... you're neither. You just want to be left alone, leave everybody else alone, don't want to be bullshitted and certainly don't want to pay (taxes) for the privelege! You think the U.S. Constitution is a miracle philosophy that concedes only the least bit of power and money to those you elect to do the minimum intrusion of freedom to accomplish things you can't do foryourself like strictly circumscribed national defense (not imperialism or the "neo-con" military protection of economic concerns) , maybe regulating where dams can be built, possibly emergency epidemiological dept, minting coins and keeping the currency reliable from counterfeit, and providing an incorruptible judiciary to settle contract disputes between free equal men. You believe that in a society unfettered as socially possible by even the least bit of goverment interference, that a miracle of human spirit results that make people be as ingenious as they can, instead of running around trying to fit the rules imposed on them, and that when they are free to choose whether to be armed without striction, society naturally evolves more civily, and there is less crime and corruption. You are more honest because there are no "social" rules except those that are natural. You grow and smoke what you want, nobody with a badge sticks a gun in your face and empties your pockets or kicks down your door. It is spiritual to mind one's own business and agree that everyone else will, too. It's not an impossible dream. Don't overindulge in drugs too often, the world needs you. Read Thomas Paine's "Rights of Man" the pages on governments, at least, understand how all of prior history man has been under someone's thumb to varying degree, and no sweet-sounding slogan is good enough to submit to that, because you don't need a bloated bureaucrat's armed official hoodlum to force you to be humanitarian, or green, or liberal, or progressive... while he picks your pocket and your paycheck and your soul to pretend to save humanity. Humanity loves itself when the power is equal and you're free to achieve honestly. Tell your friends.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> EXCELLENT post...

Mar 15, 2004, 08:38 pm	#49 (permalink) (top)
NORMLperson Molten Ash Posts: 31	Thanks for your imput Rox, but I'd just like to see what points you would agree with specifically and disagree with. I'm simply just asking to stimulate more debating. Thanks for posting.

Mar 15, 2004, 09:33 pm	#50 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (AnonT,) Well, I voted "no" because I don't think students should be denied financial aid due strictly to drug use. Instead, I think students should be denied financial aid because it's theft. If you want to pay for someone's education, donate to a scholarship fund, but don't force me to pay for other people's education. I'm working my way through college. By carefully spending my money, I'm able to make rent, bills, and tuition just off my one job at Taco Bell. My parents give me very little help with tuition, and I have yet to take financial aid or student loans. Now, I'm not going to the greatest of colleges, so my tuition is lower than most people's ($3-4000/year), but I'm still able to meet it, and I'd be more able to if the government wasn't taking 30-40% of my income in taxes. It can be done. Anyway, Bill, consider this: Many of the people paying for that financial aid are marijuana smokers. We're not all burned out old hippies whose only income is from selling beads to other old hippies. Most of us have jobs, and contribute to society. If we're paying for financial aid, don't we have a right to use it?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Only a state school would have tuition that low - so you are using tax dollars regardless. You'd have to go to a private university not to. If there were no taxes to support your state school, you'd have no option right now besides a private school that you couldn't afford even if the government took no taxes from you! "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Mar 16, 2004, 04:40 am	#51 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	Sorry, I didn't answer the question in this post. No, I would not support that law at all. I started to say yes - I am against drugs. However, I know that almost everyone at least smoked pot one time to try it, and this often times occurs in college. So kids on the right track, getting an education, should not be derailed over this. For the people who say "it's our dime..." actually it's their dime too, when they graduate and have the ability to pay four times as many taxes for the rest of their lives than if they have to drop out. Student loans HAVE to be paid back. The Federal government will take your tax refund, or go into your ss benefits if they have to. This is not a free ride. Someone else said if drug use is a real problem for some, there will be other consequences so the law will only affect those for whom it is NOT a problem - most likely just kids experimenting. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Mar 28, 2004, 01:57 am	#52 (permalink) (top)
dave654 Guest Posts: n/a	College loans are not granted by the government. The feds guarantee the loan to whichever bank you borrow the money from. IN other words you borrow from Bank I and Uncle Sam tells the bank they will cover the loan if you default. I don't really like the government involved in such activity but I did borrow money to finish college. I knew many drug using students on campus who have turned out to be fine upstanding, productive, tax paying citizens. Many would not have graduated without student loans. I find this new law rediculous and only a bone tossed to the social conservative, theocratic right wing of the Republican party. Why can't the mut cases from yhe radical wings of the political spectrum just leave the rest of us alone?