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AnonT · Feb 16, 2004, 07:10 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Disinvented,)
You have no natural (inherent) "right not to have your life forcefully taken away from you by someone else" (regardless of the LEGAL right). In nature, animals murder animals, and the only inherent law (and I use the term figuratively and loosely) is "survival of the fit." It may be a bit more moral to respect others' right to live, and certainly more legal, but morality and law are not natural or inherent. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

And right there you admit their right to live - but not their guarantee. They have a right to not have their life infringed upon, but sometimes they have to take it upon themselves to defend that right. Which, technically, is a slightly different definition of rights than my last post, too, so thanks for making me think.

Disinvented · Feb 19, 2004, 10:06 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (AnonT,)

And right there you admit their right to live - but not their guarantee. They have a right to not have their life infringed upon, but sometimes they have to take it upon themselves to defend that right. Which, technically, is a slightly different definition of rights than my last post, too, so thanks for making me think.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
I see it more as an "ability" to live rather than a "right;" I have the ability to live and the ability to defend my life by whatever means I see fit, but no other creature is obligated to respect my ability to live. If living things had to respect the right of other living things to live, we'd all starve to death.

Of course, I'm talking about in nature. In civilization rights do exist, but are defined by people. The Law says that you do indeed have a right to life, liberty, and property. All rights are artificially imposed in this manner. So, you have the right to not be murdered, to own land, and to remain silent under the laws of governments--local, state, federal, and international. However, most people don't realize that rights are merely a function of society; artificial entitlements and restrictions for the sake of social order. We are so inured in the traditions of ritualistic society and programmed to accept cultural morality that we believe rights to be absolute truths. This programming is reinforced by our fear of pain and death, as well as by our how-dare-you-do-that-to-me egos.

Feb 16, 2004, 07:10 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Disinvented,) You have no natural (inherent) "right not to have your life forcefully taken away from you by someone else" (regardless of the LEGAL right). In nature, animals murder animals, and the only inherent law (and I use the term figuratively and loosely) is "survival of the fit." It may be a bit more moral to respect others' right to live, and certainly more legal, but morality and law are not natural or inherent. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> And right there you admit their right to live - but not their guarantee. They have a right to not have their life infringed upon, but sometimes they have to take it upon themselves to defend that right. Which, technically, is a slightly different definition of rights than my last post, too, so thanks for making me think.

Feb 19, 2004, 10:06 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
Disinvented Molten Ash Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 27	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (AnonT,) And right there you admit their right to live - but not their guarantee. They have a right to not have their life infringed upon, but sometimes they have to take it upon themselves to defend that right. Which, technically, is a slightly different definition of rights than my last post, too, so thanks for making me think.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I see it more as an "ability" to live rather than a "right;" I have the ability to live and the ability to defend my life by whatever means I see fit, but no other creature is obligated to respect my ability to live. If living things had to respect the right of other living things to live, we'd all starve to death. Of course, I'm talking about in nature. In civilization rights do exist, but are defined by people. The Law says that you do indeed have a right to life, liberty, and property. All rights are artificially imposed in this manner. So, you have the right to not be murdered, to own land, and to remain silent under the laws of governments--local, state, federal, and international. However, most people don't realize that rights are merely a function of society; artificial entitlements and restrictions for the sake of social order. We are so inured in the traditions of ritualistic society and programmed to accept cultural morality that we believe rights to be absolute truths. This programming is reinforced by our fear of pain and death, as well as by our how-dare-you-do-that-to-me egos.