IVF treatment for lesbian couples?

[blibbka]

I did a search and found no matches for this topic (although I find it hard to believe that it hasn't been previously debated). Anyway, here goes::

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4315145.stm

Swedish legislators are due to amend a law which would legalise fertilisation treatment for lesbian couples. The new provision, which is expected to pass easily before coming into force in July, will be available to lesbian couples joined in civil partnerships. After the child is born, both women would be regarded as its mother. Currently, artificial insemination is only available to heterosexual partners, requiring lesbian couples to go abroad for treatment. "The basis for the bill is that lesbian couples will be on an equal footing with heterosexual couples when it comes to assisted fertilisation," the government said.

Rather than a discussion on Sweden specifically (the laws relating to other aspects of lesbian relationships and rights may vary according to your country), I'd be interested in hearing some debate over the ethics of this.

Would you in theory support allowing lesbian couples ivf treatment? And if so, or if not - why?

[tman_ndsu08]

It depends if they're really hot and willing to perform for me in my basement in front of a video camera.

[PatrickHenry]

tman_ndsu08, are you really castille masquerading under another username? If not, you must be misbegotten brothers. If I saw your response to the previous question unattributed, I would have immediately thought, "castille"

As to the question, IVF should be available to anyone who can afford it. Laws shouldn't limit medicine to any specific race, gender, religion, or social class, period. Ain't nobody's business but your own...

[tripimollee]

Quote by: blibbka I did a search and found no matches for this topic (although I find it hard to believe that it hasn't been previously debated). Anyway, here goes:: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4315145.stm Rather than a discussion on Sweden specifically (the laws relating to other aspects of lesbian relationships and rights may vary according to your country), I'd be interested in hearing some debate over the ethics of this. Would you in theory support allowing lesbian couples ivf treatment? And if so, or if not - why?

I don't support it in theory, I support it in reality. My 2 aunts now have 2 beautiful children as a result, and they are quite wonderful mothers- but they also make sure that both children have positive male role models too. They make sure that the children spend enough time with their uncles and grandfather, and they involve the children in activities and outings. They are perfect for each other, and perfect for their children. And I think that if a lesbian couple is going to go through the effort of getting the procedure done, and pay for it, then it's a sign that they are dedicated and responsible enough to do it.

[tman_ndsu08]

What about if the banks start putting a "Do you agree to let your sperm be used by lesbians" checkbox in the contracts?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 What about if the banks start putting a "Do you agree to let your sperm be used by lesbians" checkbox in the contracts?

THAT'S funny!!!

[blibbka]

Mmmm, I was epecting a more conservative response.

I find it difficult to make up my mind on this issue.

I have no problem with lesbian or gay couples adopting. But why IVF?

[shanartisan]

I have no problem with lesbian or gay couples adopting. But why IVF?

That takes it into the whole "IVF vs adoption" debate for me...Why spend the effort and time to create another child, exposing yourself to the risks of possible multiples and the moral responsibility of selective reduction, when there are so many unwanted kids?

I do think choosing the gay lifestyle is morally wrong, but if two people have chosen that and they have a loving home, there are tons of kids out there already who need that home. A loving gay home where you know you belong is certainly better than being passed off from foster home to foster home, being with people who only take care of you because they are paid. I know there are a lot of good foster parents, but there have to be at least as many who are only doing it because the state pays for the kid. Even if a child is in a loving foster home, those foster parents have no control over whether the kid is suddenly rotated into another home, or their drugged up mom comes back to get the kid, and if that goes wrong again and the kid is thrown back into the system, they won't return to the home where they were loved....No, even if the couple only wants to adopt a baby, I'd rather see that happen than another child get passed over in favor of fertility treatments.

[Logjam]

Life is hard. It's complex. Why should we muddle with the already muddied experience of being an adolescence by throwing same sex parents into the mix? It's just not worth it. I believe that it's selfish for homosexual couples to force their weird lifestyle and perverted sexual orientation onto a young, impressionable and innocent youngster.

I think that it borders upon cruel for homosexual couples upon children.

It's all being done to try to convince the public that homosexuality is a normal, practical, and acceptable sexual practice.

I ain't buying it.

[tman_ndsu08]

Probably because it's very hard to adopt a normal kid from this country. I imagine that it's probably much harder as a same sex couple since most people are against letting same sex couples raise kids. You can go outside our country for a kid, but there are risks and it's extremely expensive.

At that point, it's probably hopeless for a gay couple. However, a lesbian couple has the advantage that they can make a new kid if they can get the sperm donor.

That's probably why they want to.

[Logjam]

Quote by: shanartisan I do think choosing the gay lifestyle is morally wrong,

You know what homosexuals do to oneanother right? That's not morally wrong? Who taught you that homosexual behavior is perfectly acceptable?

Is there any sexual behavior that is morally wrong?

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Logjam Life is hard. It's complex. Why should we muddle with the already muddied experience of being an adolescence by throwing same sex parents into the mix? It's just not worth it. I believe that it's selfish for homosexual couples to force their weird lifestyle and perverted sexual orientation onto a young, impressionable and innocent youngster. I think that it borders upon cruel for homosexual couples upon children. It's all being done to try to convince the public that homosexuality is a normal, practical, and acceptable sexual practice. I ain't buying it.

So you'd rather have a kid live on the streets selling drugs for a living while never having any parents other than his/her older gang leaders instead of letting a same sex couple who can afford to properly shelter, feed, educate, and care for him/her?

[tripimollee]

Quote by: Logjam Life is hard. It's complex. Why should we muddle with the already muddied experience of being an adolescence by throwing same sex parents into the mix? It's just not worth it. I believe that it's selfish for homosexual couples to force their weird lifestyle and perverted sexual orientation onto a young, impressionable and innocent youngster. I think that it borders upon cruel for homosexual couples upon children. It's all being done to try to convince the public that homosexuality is a normal, practical, and acceptable sexual practice. I ain't buying it.

Homosexuality is not perverted, it's perfectly natural. Natural as in, IT'S FOUND IN NATURE. Penguins do it. There are other animals that do it too. Secondly, they do not have weird lifestyles at all. Their lifestyles are just the same as anyone, except for the fact that their sexual orientation is different. Third, they are not forcing their orientation upon anyone. Many gay couples have gone on to raise straight children. Fourth, they are no more perverted than heterosexuals.
Nice try.

[blibbka]

Excuse me while I think aloud:

Does being brought up by lesbian parents do any harm to the child?

If the harm that is done is due to society stigmatising them for having lesbian parents, then you could argue that it is societies fault for stigmatising them, rather than the fault of the parents for exposing societies' cruelty.

To a lot of people mixed race parents are regarded as unnatural, but should their children be victimised due to their parentage, then clearly something needs to be done about the victimisers, not the parents.

Okay, so there is an obvious difference: If mixed race parents have a child, that is natural biology at work. IF a lesbian couple have a child through IVF treatment, that isn't quite so natural.

But then again one half of a lesbian couple could legally go out and find a guy to impregnate her, then keep the child as her own and bring it up with their lesbian partner. Neither would that be "messing with nature".... So perhaps this is just a cleaner and safer way of achieving what any lesbian couple could do in any case: In the same way as if abortion is illegal, women still have "coat-hanger abortions". If it can be done more safely and humanely then we might as well be pragmatic and compassionate and legally allow the safe and humane techniques to be used.

One argument I can imagine putting forward at this point is that by making it "easier" for a lesbian couple to have children, we might be encouraging lesbianism..... (Sounds good to me.... joking).. But I find that argument hard to believe... just writing it makes me want to laugh.

So I suppose the conclusion I'm talking myself to is that I guess it should be legal. Once you look at it coldly and logically, I can't really find a good argument against it right now.

[tman_ndsu08]

If the harm that is done is due to society stigmatising them for having lesbian parents, then you could argue that it is societies fault for stigmatising them, rather than the fault of the parents for exposing societies' cruelty.

Technically yes, but I find it hard to believe that any lesbian couple considering raising a child would be so naive to think that soceity wouldn't find anything wrong with that at all and never say anything to the child.

They have to know that the child is probably going to be humiliated and outcast to some degree.