Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Suburbanite · Feb 1, 2004, 12:06 am

Now let me explain something to non-Americans and Americans who refuse to acknowledge it: Racism Exists In America. There is no way around it. Black, Latino, Asian people are pushed and pulled in directions as a direct response to their environment. Any crimes committed by these people are of course their own responsibility; the causality of it is not simply a group of individuals who copped out too early in life. There are factors involved here, huge ones, ruminant from Jim Crow and Slavery.
With that out of the way, what is with White people playing the victims? It is just pathetic, and they aren't fooling anyone. I don't feel bad for a white person because a Black person got into college. I can not tell you how many times I have heard "My daughter didn't get into College because she is White". Not only are white women the single largest recipient of Affirmative Action, but that’s probably not true otherwise. There is such a small, small, small number of people who get in on Affirmative Action. Populations of targeted minorities didn't double in college, they only slightly went up. Yet 20 million American White men and women don't get in every year because a Latino guys has their spot.
White men still make of the upper class, but they are the victims in our society? Please! The next time you hear a white guy say something is racist towards White people sodomize his family.

castille · Feb 1, 2004, 01:02 am

Well Asians don't get special "college places" and they still fill up more places in college than their population portion....

Suburbanite · Feb 1, 2004, 03:44 am

Chinese, Japanese, and Korean students do. Asians from nearly every other asian country are underrepresented in college.

Impenitent · Feb 1, 2004, 11:18 am

Asians not from Asia are overrepresented?

but Asians from other Asia are underrepresented...

divide and divide and divide... you are in this group and this group and this sub group and this sub group so now this sub group and american society discriminates against this sub group...

so move

Suburbanite · Feb 1, 2004, 05:33 pm

What?

**Pooeypants** · Feb 1, 2004, 06:47 pm

I remember long ago something my Principal from Secondary school said once in assembly. He was talking why students with asian backgrounds tend to do better at school. I vaguely remember something about the parents getting involved with the kids education, buying textbooks and sitting down with their kids and going through with it etc etc. Hang on, this isn't actually that relevant to this thread. Just like Impenitent's post.

Suburbanite · Feb 1, 2004, 06:59 pm

Hahaha.

Impenitent · Feb 2, 2004, 01:14 am

if you want to explore racism in america, try reading the racial contract by charles mills

Suburbanite · Feb 2, 2004, 05:46 am

I will take a look into that. I have explored the issues pretty indepth though, and I stand by my point. The Bell Curve and other pseudo-intellectual racism are not without their heavy flaws. Taking a look at this book just now though shows me it isn't a normal look. I'll be sure to pick this up as soon as I can, thanks for the info.

caspian88 · Feb 3, 2004, 07:02 pm

Racism is defined as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race." This does exist, although it some (probobly most) individuals it is only a slight thing in their minds. Every human being is inherently biased in this regard. Eve if it is not just negative, we all have a stereotypical view of other races thn ourselves, because they are different from our own. It is impossible not to have some sort of idea about how another race works, generally and stereotypically, although it is possible to cut out the bias and act normally to a person of a different race.

Racists embrace the differences and see them as an inferiority, while those of us who are not racists simply ignore the differences and thoughts that show up in our minds, and act as if the person is a member of our race.

Suburbanite · Feb 3, 2004, 08:26 pm

Instead of doing that embrace the differences and still see them as equals.

Comrade · Feb 22, 2004, 02:07 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
Just like Impenitent's post. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Stupid, I don't think you understood his meaning.
We divide up people into these categories and decide that they are part of this group, based upon race.

Just typically American, doesn't even truely understand what racism is.

Being mean to a black person is not racist.
Being mean to a black person because of his skin color is.

kharmajunkie · Feb 22, 2004, 03:47 pm

Sub, I loved your post. (except for the sodomy part) I think this new American desire to be looked upon as oppressed or as some sort of martyr or victim goes beyond racial lines though. Christians, atheists, gays, republicans, fat people, gun owners, Muslims, pot smokers; any and every group and subgroup feels the need to be looked upon as differently oppressed. I have a theory and I know many will laugh at it for being a bit simpleminded but I see a connection; it's in film, literature and sports. I know it's been said but we love underdogs. We love come from behind games. We love "Rocky" and "hoosiers" or "revenge of the nerds". We love and root for the Cubs and Redsox or that fourteen year-old girl in the golf tourney.
Now after generations of loving that stuff we have a lot of melodramatic people that feel a need for a "moral victory" and latch on to fights and defend against attacks that aren't there.

Stigmata66 · Feb 22, 2004, 04:25 pm

Dear Malcom X ...opps I mean Suburbanite
Racism does exsist in America because of people like you. People like you set up RACIST programs like affirmative action; how can you justify admitting or denying someone from a college based on race???? Even if it happens just a little bit....YOU CAN'T. NIGGER ooooooh I said a bad word look at how racist I am, right? WRONG! It's just a word get over it, blacks call whites crackers and all kinds of things and nothing happens. But when someone in the government says niggardly he is forced to resign and appologize that is hypocrisy at its finest. Maybe it's things like Affirmative Action and double standards in Politcal Correctness that breed alittle animosity between races. I'm sorry for something I didn't do; you blame me for slavery a hundred years before I was born. The ever oppressive white man get a break you people need to stop complaining about whites who actually speak up against REAL injustices. I'm sorry I geuss I'n just guilty of being white. You know the reason for "white men still make of the upper class" is because whites make up about 80% of the population in the U.S. OH GOD MAYBE THE UPPER CLASS HAS A MAJORITY OF WHITES BECAUSE WHITES MAKE UP A MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION!!! OH NO!!! NOT FACTS!!

kharmajunkie · Feb 22, 2004, 05:26 pm

Stigmata, I think you just helped him prove his point with your post.

Stigmata66 · Feb 22, 2004, 06:54 pm

Haha you wish...I'm not playing "victim" I only said the truth and facts; now if telling the turth and using facts to backup the truth is being a biased racial bigot then I geuss I'm just some dumb peice of white trash and I should let Mr. demoauthoritarian run my life because I'm too incompetent to.

kharmajunkie · Feb 24, 2004, 02:08 am

First off, we're all biased. I didn't call you a bigot either. I don't know you. From your post though, you sound like a whiner that feels the need to be looked upon as oppressed. I don't go around throwing words like "racist" around
at people. Assessing everyone that's makes an intolerant comment as racist is both lazy and culturally dishonest.

koi · Feb 25, 2004, 02:34 am

hello. my name is Adam and I am a victim.

I am a white, catholic male between the age of 18 and 25. I live in a middle class neighbourhood.

There are no laws, special rights or freedoms or acts or bylaws that protect me or grant me any sort of special status.

If a black person were to call me a "kracker" there is nothing I can do legally. Of course, if I did the reverse, say at school, I would be in some serious trouble.

Now, as a catholic, I feel entitled to wear a cross. After all, Sihks wear a turban, some muslins do as well. They also have religious beliefs concerning beards and facial hair.

As an employee at McDonals there ia dress code.
Men may not wear jewlery, this would include my cross it would seem.
A Sihk, can still wear their turban though. even though it violates the dress code stating we must wear official caps.

This is fair? this is not discriminating against me? or rather, this is not giving someone else a special privilege?

As an Albertan, my car insurance, should I choose to drive, is roughly three times what my younger sister pays. This was decided as "fair" because more young men in my age group had accidents than women in the same group.

I would like to point out that most often the boyfriend drives, or that the DD is a male. Or, at least in all my circles of friends the males drive. If more males are driving during "bar" hours, then of course they will be in more accidents, that's not proof, it's a weighted statistic.

So yes, I am a victim. of the government, of the corporation and of the law.
The government grants certain groups "special" rights, creating in-equality and feelings of "rascism" in those who do not benifit from these rights.

koi · Feb 25, 2004, 02:43 am

hrm, I apologize for posting twice. upon re-reading my post I realize I was unclear on one of my points and forgot one entirely.

The Dress Code I work under states men cannot wear jewlery of any type. this includes all facial piercings and necklaces. Women may wear earings provided they are small and tastefull. why?
Braceletes and necklaces I can understand as they run the risk of catching on something. And ring+food prep is just unsanitary. But why can a man not wear his earrings if he has piercings?

The code also states all male employees must be clean shaven or have neatly trimmed, short facil hair. this is for two reasons. the first is to present a clean cut and approprate image of the server. the second is to prevent hair from getting in the food.
Religious groups are exempt from this.

How does where I live make me a victim? Simple my "tax bracket". or rather my parent's tax bracket. They enough that they are taxed fairly heavily, being upper middle class wage earners who both work full time. They do not make enough to recieve some of the tax break the "rich" get nor do they make little enough to enjoy the rebates and what not that say, I get for working my crappy little Mc-Job.

AnonT · Feb 26, 2004, 06:39 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Suburbanite,)
Now let me explain something to non-Americans and Americans who refuse to acknowledge it: Racism Exists In America. There is no way around it. Black, Latino, Asian people are pushed and pulled in directions as a direct response to their environment. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yes, there's racism in America. Not all of it is white on black, or even white on minority. Not all the rest of it is minority on white. Even white guilt or self hate or whatever doesn't account for all that much. Actually, a lot of racism in this country is minority on minority.
How many blacks hate hispanics, asians, and Jews? Last time I saw a poll on this, over 50% of blacks had anti-Semitic beliefs. Black elected officials have gotten away with calling Jews "hymies" and making other prejudiced remarks against hispanics and asians, while members of any other racial group would be attacked for calling someone a "nigger". (btw, stigmata, if you can't say something that at least doesn't make you look like a complete, total dumbass, you might want to not post so much) I've heard hispanics complain about blacks taking college spots away from them (and, if you look at some of the info Clarence Thomas presented in his dissent in Grutter vs. Bollinger, they have at least as much of a point as whites), and I've heard asians say rude things about blacks and hispanics for a variety of reasons. Racism isn't an all white thing.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
There are factors involved here, huge ones, ruminant from Jim Crow and Slavery. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Are you arguing for affirmative action as a form of reparations? If so, I'd suggest you read my post in the thread on reparations.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
With that out of the way, what is with White people playing the victims? It is just pathetic, and they aren't fooling anyone. I don't feel bad for a white person because a Black person got into college. I can not tell you how many times I have heard "My daughter didn't get into College because she is White". Not only are white women the single largest recipient of Affirmative Action, but that’s probably not true otherwise. There is such a small, small, small number of people who get in on Affirmative Action. Populations of targeted minorities didn't double in college, they only slightly went up. Yet 20 million American White men and women don't get in every year because a Latino guys has their spot. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Actually, my main complaint with affirmative action is that minorities are actually less likely to graduate under affirmative action than they are without it. Larry Elder's The Ten Things You Can't Say in America does a pretty good job of showing it; I'm sure you can find other sources that say the same thing. Minorities have higher enrollment rates but much lower graduation rates under affirmative action; and if minorities aren't graduating from college, what the hell good does it do them to go? At least at universities that don't use affirmative action in their enrollment policies, those blacks who make it into college end up graduating, meaning they have a degree, can get a good job, can send their kids to a good school, and will have kids who will go to college. Under affirmative action, you have a lot more minorities who go to college but drop out, souring them on college and making them less likely to encourage their kids to go.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
White men still make of the upper class, but they are the victims in our society? Please! The next time you hear a white guy say something is racist towards White people sodomize his family.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Oh, and that's not racist? Should I sodomize a black family if I hear them say something is racist towards blacks? Singling people out on the basis of race is racism, which is exactly what you do here.

Feb 1, 2004, 01:02 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Well Asians don't get special "college places" and they still fill up more places in college than their population portion.... Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Feb 1, 2004, 11:18 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	Asians not from Asia are overrepresented? but Asians from other Asia are underrepresented... divide and divide and divide... you are in this group and this group and this sub group and this sub group so now this sub group and american society discriminates against this sub group... so move "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 1, 2004, 06:47 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,472	I remember long ago something my Principal from Secondary school said once in assembly. He was talking why students with asian backgrounds tend to do better at school. I vaguely remember something about the parents getting involved with the kids education, buying textbooks and sitting down with their kids and going through with it etc etc. Hang on, this isn't actually that relevant to this thread. Just like Impenitent's post. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 2, 2004, 01:14 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	if you want to explore racism in america, try reading the racial contract by charles mills "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 22, 2004, 02:07 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) Just like Impenitent's post. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Stupid, I don't think you understood his meaning. We divide up people into these categories and decide that they are part of this group, based upon race. Just typically American, doesn't even truely understand what racism is. Being mean to a black person is not racist. Being mean to a black person because of his skin color is. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Feb 1, 2004, 12:06 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Now let me explain something to non-Americans and Americans who refuse to acknowledge it: Racism Exists In America. There is no way around it. Black, Latino, Asian people are pushed and pulled in directions as a direct response to their environment. Any crimes committed by these people are of course their own responsibility; the causality of it is not simply a group of individuals who copped out too early in life. There are factors involved here, huge ones, ruminant from Jim Crow and Slavery. With that out of the way, what is with White people playing the victims? It is just pathetic, and they aren't fooling anyone. I don't feel bad for a white person because a Black person got into college. I can not tell you how many times I have heard "My daughter didn't get into College because she is White". Not only are white women the single largest recipient of Affirmative Action, but that’s probably not true otherwise. There is such a small, small, small number of people who get in on Affirmative Action. Populations of targeted minorities didn't double in college, they only slightly went up. Yet 20 million American White men and women don't get in every year because a Latino guys has their spot. White men still make of the upper class, but they are the victims in our society? Please! The next time you hear a white guy say something is racist towards White people sodomize his family.

Feb 1, 2004, 03:44 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Chinese, Japanese, and Korean students do. Asians from nearly every other asian country are underrepresented in college.

Feb 1, 2004, 05:33 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	What?

Feb 1, 2004, 06:59 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Hahaha.

Feb 2, 2004, 05:46 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	I will take a look into that. I have explored the issues pretty indepth though, and I stand by my point. The Bell Curve and other pseudo-intellectual racism are not without their heavy flaws. Taking a look at this book just now though shows me it isn't a normal look. I'll be sure to pick this up as soon as I can, thanks for the info.

Feb 3, 2004, 07:02 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
caspian88 Molten Ash Posts: 85	Racism is defined as "Discrimination or prejudice based on race." This does exist, although it some (probobly most) individuals it is only a slight thing in their minds. Every human being is inherently biased in this regard. Eve if it is not just negative, we all have a stereotypical view of other races thn ourselves, because they are different from our own. It is impossible not to have some sort of idea about how another race works, generally and stereotypically, although it is possible to cut out the bias and act normally to a person of a different race. Racists embrace the differences and see them as an inferiority, while those of us who are not racists simply ignore the differences and thoughts that show up in our minds, and act as if the person is a member of our race.

Feb 3, 2004, 08:26 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Instead of doing that embrace the differences and still see them as equals.

Feb 22, 2004, 03:47 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	Sub, I loved your post. (except for the sodomy part) I think this new American desire to be looked upon as oppressed or as some sort of martyr or victim goes beyond racial lines though. Christians, atheists, gays, republicans, fat people, gun owners, Muslims, pot smokers; any and every group and subgroup feels the need to be looked upon as differently oppressed. I have a theory and I know many will laugh at it for being a bit simpleminded but I see a connection; it's in film, literature and sports. I know it's been said but we love underdogs. We love come from behind games. We love "Rocky" and "hoosiers" or "revenge of the nerds". We love and root for the Cubs and Redsox or that fourteen year-old girl in the golf tourney. Now after generations of loving that stuff we have a lot of melodramatic people that feel a need for a "moral victory" and latch on to fights and defend against attacks that aren't there. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 22, 2004, 04:25 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Stigmata66 Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 74	Dear Malcom X ...opps I mean Suburbanite Racism does exsist in America because of people like you. People like you set up RACIST programs like affirmative action; how can you justify admitting or denying someone from a college based on race???? Even if it happens just a little bit....YOU CAN'T. NIGGER ooooooh I said a bad word look at how racist I am, right? WRONG! It's just a word get over it, blacks call whites crackers and all kinds of things and nothing happens. But when someone in the government says niggardly he is forced to resign and appologize that is hypocrisy at its finest. Maybe it's things like Affirmative Action and double standards in Politcal Correctness that breed alittle animosity between races. I'm sorry for something I didn't do; you blame me for slavery a hundred years before I was born. The ever oppressive white man get a break you people need to stop complaining about whites who actually speak up against REAL injustices. I'm sorry I geuss I'n just guilty of being white. You know the reason for "white men still make of the upper class" is because whites make up about 80% of the population in the U.S. OH GOD MAYBE THE UPPER CLASS HAS A MAJORITY OF WHITES BECAUSE WHITES MAKE UP A MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION!!! OH NO!!! NOT FACTS!! Hate heals, you should try it some time! Fukin Arch Enemy!

Feb 22, 2004, 05:26 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	Stigmata, I think you just helped him prove his point with your post. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 22, 2004, 06:54 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Stigmata66 Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 74	Haha you wish...I'm not playing "victim" I only said the truth and facts; now if telling the turth and using facts to backup the truth is being a biased racial bigot then I geuss I'm just some dumb peice of white trash and I should let Mr. demoauthoritarian run my life because I'm too incompetent to. Hate heals, you should try it some time! Fukin Arch Enemy!

Feb 24, 2004, 02:08 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	First off, we're all biased. I didn't call you a bigot either. I don't know you. From your post though, you sound like a whiner that feels the need to be looked upon as oppressed. I don't go around throwing words like "racist" around at people. Assessing everyone that's makes an intolerant comment as racist is both lazy and culturally dishonest. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 25, 2004, 02:34 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
koi Molten Ash Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 63	hello. my name is Adam and I am a victim. I am a white, catholic male between the age of 18 and 25. I live in a middle class neighbourhood. There are no laws, special rights or freedoms or acts or bylaws that protect me or grant me any sort of special status. If a black person were to call me a "kracker" there is nothing I can do legally. Of course, if I did the reverse, say at school, I would be in some serious trouble. Now, as a catholic, I feel entitled to wear a cross. After all, Sihks wear a turban, some muslins do as well. They also have religious beliefs concerning beards and facial hair. As an employee at McDonals there ia dress code. Men may not wear jewlery, this would include my cross it would seem. A Sihk, can still wear their turban though. even though it violates the dress code stating we must wear official caps. This is fair? this is not discriminating against me? or rather, this is not giving someone else a special privilege? As an Albertan, my car insurance, should I choose to drive, is roughly three times what my younger sister pays. This was decided as "fair" because more young men in my age group had accidents than women in the same group. I would like to point out that most often the boyfriend drives, or that the DD is a male. Or, at least in all my circles of friends the males drive. If more males are driving during "bar" hours, then of course they will be in more accidents, that's not proof, it's a weighted statistic. So yes, I am a victim. of the government, of the corporation and of the law. The government grants certain groups "special" rights, creating in-equality and feelings of "rascism" in those who do not benifit from these rights. "Optimisim is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable" Voltaire "The point of sacrifice is giving up something you didn't want in the first place"

Feb 25, 2004, 02:43 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
koi Molten Ash Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 63	hrm, I apologize for posting twice. upon re-reading my post I realize I was unclear on one of my points and forgot one entirely. The Dress Code I work under states men cannot wear jewlery of any type. this includes all facial piercings and necklaces. Women may wear earings provided they are small and tastefull. why? Braceletes and necklaces I can understand as they run the risk of catching on something. And ring+food prep is just unsanitary. But why can a man not wear his earrings if he has piercings? The code also states all male employees must be clean shaven or have neatly trimmed, short facil hair. this is for two reasons. the first is to present a clean cut and approprate image of the server. the second is to prevent hair from getting in the food. Religious groups are exempt from this. How does where I live make me a victim? Simple my "tax bracket". or rather my parent's tax bracket. They enough that they are taxed fairly heavily, being upper middle class wage earners who both work full time. They do not make enough to recieve some of the tax break the "rich" get nor do they make little enough to enjoy the rebates and what not that say, I get for working my crappy little Mc-Job. "Optimisim is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable" Voltaire "The point of sacrifice is giving up something you didn't want in the first place"

Feb 26, 2004, 06:39 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
AnonT Molten Ash Location: Middle of nowhere, Nebraska Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Suburbanite,) Now let me explain something to non-Americans and Americans who refuse to acknowledge it: Racism Exists In America. There is no way around it. Black, Latino, Asian people are pushed and pulled in directions as a direct response to their environment. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yes, there's racism in America. Not all of it is white on black, or even white on minority. Not all the rest of it is minority on white. Even white guilt or self hate or whatever doesn't account for all that much. Actually, a lot of racism in this country is minority on minority. How many blacks hate hispanics, asians, and Jews? Last time I saw a poll on this, over 50% of blacks had anti-Semitic beliefs. Black elected officials have gotten away with calling Jews "hymies" and making other prejudiced remarks against hispanics and asians, while members of any other racial group would be attacked for calling someone a "nigger". (btw, stigmata, if you can't say something that at least doesn't make you look like a complete, total dumbass, you might want to not post so much) I've heard hispanics complain about blacks taking college spots away from them (and, if you look at some of the info Clarence Thomas presented in his dissent in Grutter vs. Bollinger, they have at least as much of a point as whites), and I've heard asians say rude things about blacks and hispanics for a variety of reasons. Racism isn't an all white thing. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by There are factors involved here, huge ones, ruminant from Jim Crow and Slavery. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Are you arguing for affirmative action as a form of reparations? If so, I'd suggest you read my post in the thread on reparations. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by With that out of the way, what is with White people playing the victims? It is just pathetic, and they aren't fooling anyone. I don't feel bad for a white person because a Black person got into college. I can not tell you how many times I have heard "My daughter didn't get into College because she is White". Not only are white women the single largest recipient of Affirmative Action, but that’s probably not true otherwise. There is such a small, small, small number of people who get in on Affirmative Action. Populations of targeted minorities didn't double in college, they only slightly went up. Yet 20 million American White men and women don't get in every year because a Latino guys has their spot. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Actually, my main complaint with affirmative action is that minorities are actually less likely to graduate under affirmative action than they are without it. Larry Elder's The Ten Things You Can't Say in America does a pretty good job of showing it; I'm sure you can find other sources that say the same thing. Minorities have higher enrollment rates but much lower graduation rates under affirmative action; and if minorities aren't graduating from college, what the hell good does it do them to go? At least at universities that don't use affirmative action in their enrollment policies, those blacks who make it into college end up graduating, meaning they have a degree, can get a good job, can send their kids to a good school, and will have kids who will go to college. Under affirmative action, you have a lot more minorities who go to college but drop out, souring them on college and making them less likely to encourage their kids to go. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by White men still make of the upper class, but they are the victims in our society? Please! The next time you hear a white guy say something is racist towards White people sodomize his family.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Oh, and that's not racist? Should I sodomize a black family if I hear them say something is racist towards blacks? Singling people out on the basis of race is racism, which is exactly what you do here.