Are Guys Capable Of Being Friends With Women?

[bugsbunny04]

[quote=castille,]Just to ease the seriousness of the political stuff....

Do you think guys are capable of purely platonic friendships with women?

QUOTE]

Yes! Especially if the woman is either not attractive or if you are talking about a lesbian couple that lets you watch

[Man Against Time]

Your attitudes towards relationships are clearly a result of sexual frustration.

When my idiotic little brother is looking to make fun of me, he says things that mean nothing, but in a negative sounding voice in a vain attempt to mask the fact that he just said nothing.


Whether it involves represing sexual desire or not, there are literally thousands of example of places where men and women can co-operate

If it does involve suppressing sexual desire, then the idea of a regular friendship is ruled out, huh? You have a regular friendship with people of your own sex. I am not repressing sexual desire for my guy friends. That is a default, normal, regular, FRIENDSHIP. I have no girl friends because I have a woman and thus have no desire whatsoever to interact with women if it does not involve my penis in some way. Women whose sexual company I regularly enjoyed wouldnt exactly be Friends though, now would they, considering my default, regular friendship is with guys for whom I feel no attraction whatsoever.

I can make it simpler. Friendship implies a nonsexual sense of attachment, a feeling of relation to another person.

Men who relate to women have problems.

Women who relate to men have problems.

We are very different. I am not interested in what women have to say, or what they think, because I do not see things from their perspective. Its like seeing the entire world through different eyes. Women only become interesting when a higher union with them is possible, one that transcends limited physical bonds of Man and Woman and joins them through that wonderfully awe-inspiring fountain of pure power that is manifested in SEXUALITY. Without that, women are worthless to men. (Except as mothers, and it is worthy of mention that guys with shitty mothers obviously have maternal, pandering, submissive relationships with all kinds of women because they lack a maternal foundation)

Unless, like I said, you are some defeated, thick-framed glasses wearing, whiny, scrawny emo kid. Any man worthy of the title though has nothing significantly feminine about him enough to understand or relate to women one bit. The same is true of real women.

And it is absured to think that just because you might have the odd, idol sexual thought it can tottaly jepodise your ability to get along with the opposite sex. You need to relax. I know that in my case, its the fact that thinking about sex is not something that bothers me, therefore I really actually think about it.

Wonderful. What does this say whatsoever about your ability to remain purely friendly with a woman that you want? Is manhood so polluted and lost that men have no concept of what it means to WANT? When you WANT something, can you be said now to have an objective and fair point of view toward it? If what you WANT doesnt appreciate that, do you so meekly put aside your interests? Do you even feel a desire to posses woman? Or are your sexual relationships with them dominated by some domesticated call for "understanding?"

I also find if theres one perticular girl (or boy) your getting on with you dont see the others in any sexual light whatsoever

I used to be that way, but I think its womanly now. I think thats just from being newly in love. It doesnt take long to seperate the honored and respectable good will to sacrifice for a woman (combined with wanting her of course) from just wanting another woman to feed a sexual appetite. In the case of the former relationship, sex is my aforementioned hallowed path to something higher, a metaphysical union. In the case of the latter, sex ranks somewhere between eating and shitting, a merely animal function that springs from animal needs.
But no one thinks to criticise the value and need of eating or shitting, do they?

[Samildanach]

I don't believe men and women can ever truly be friends until sex is out of the way. Therefore if you have a woman you want to be friends with it is absolutely necessary to give her one (if not two or three) to get all that sexual tension out of the way.....then you can start to look at things objectively.

castille,

It is determined by supply and demand. I worked at a gym and saw both sides. When the male/female ration is in your favor, you are free to have a 'friendship' because the opposite sex will be throwing themselves at you without you having to try. If the ratio is against you, you can not afford to waste the time and energy on a 'friendship.'

The other side of your question is a good one. Women are as sexual or even more sexual then men. The gals I worked with would train a man and wave goodbye. Their sexual opinions of the guy would start as soon as he was out of earshot. A woman can afford to be 'friends' because she can get a guy whenever she wants.

[dotcoma]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (castille,)
Just to ease the seriousness of the political stuff....
Do you think guys are capable of purely platonic friendships with women?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

If they are unattractive...sure....

[dotcoma]

that was a joke....

[syracusa]

As a woman, I found castille's statement extremely rude, insulting and pathetic too. "If shes worth something, a lot of girls' "guy friends" just want to get laid with her". If she's "worth" something? ...
Applying logic, I take it any women who looks less than "Cosmo cover" is not "worth anything", according to Castille.

If Castille is representative of most men, and "most men" rule the world...is it any wonder that the world is as shitty as it is?

..oh - and before you jump at evaluating my "worth" - I happen to be "worth" a lot (in your terms). Yeap, very attractive by standards.

I am glad that someone like you would think so highly of me.
I am so honored, Castille.

[Man Against Time]

Ugly women can be worth something if they have a lot of children or cook very well.

syra,

Umm, he was just speaking in the terms used by people. Don't take it personally.

Men admit their concern over looks. Women tend to lie or dodge the issue.

MAN: "Hmm, I just don't like her nose, weight, overall look, etc."

WOMAN: "We're not compatible." (the guy could weigh 300 pounds, be really short, tall, 90-pound weakling, etc., but the woman will invent a non-looks reason to deceive herself)

[syracusa]

StoneWT,

I understand what you are saying. We all like pretty people and pretty things, sure.

But from here to actually make some of the repugnant statements that SOME of your fellow "macho" forum attenders have made...it is a long way.
I am not going to get into the debate of why SOME men - the ones who always claim monopoly over "real manhood" - are so obsessed with women's looks ONLY; or why they don't seem to ever care about learning to relate to the other half of the population in a decent, human way - not just as a F***-ing machines.
I guess this ideology helps their pathetic egos, I don't know.

But I'll skip the "nature vs. nurture" debate that never gets us anywhere. (Is it your testosterone that makes you interested in my "round, heart-shaped perfect size 4 A**" ONLY, or is it the culture that feeds you this pathetic crap?). Never mind.

However, I cannot help noticing the kind of repugnant statements that some guys here use: "I have no interest in what a woman has to say, I don't look at things from her perspective" or simply implying that women are not worth interacting with other than on a sexual basis.
Or the other guy's reply: un ugly woman is worth something if she makes children or cooks well, etc. (If you were just being "funny" - can you get funny-ER?").

I consider this kind of specimens NOT to be worth engaging in an actual conversation with.

But their attitude reminds me of a great point I read somewhere a few years ago; drawing on that:
If it is true that the extra amount of testosterone that you carry in your organism made you into this kind of pathetic human being that THINKS and FEELS like that...then I look forward to the day when the testosterone will give you the urge to bunji-jump or parachute from an air-plane...or something "manly" like this...and you will just exterminate yourself in due time; and everyone else like you.

Darwin at work. Good luck.

[syracusa]

Oh, one more thing you guys:
You may also want to take into account your American/anglo culture bias that is literally brainwashing you everyday with this obssession with "looks".

On a related matter, in the culture where I am coming from (and others that think along the same lines and are known for HOT-BLOODED males), there is this long-held belief that a TRUE MAN (the kind that just LIVES to spread his genes :) ) will F*** anything female coming his way.

A man who fusses over the looks of a woman (oh, her nose is not quite perfect oh, she is kind of fat, oh she's not as 'hot' as a model etc) are considered incredible Pussies with very sad D***s.

The whole "A-woman-MUST-be-hot-for-my-precious-d***-to-get-up" ideology is just a pathetic cover-up for men who probably have little testosterone or drive but want to appear like they have A LOT.
But then again...nobody has ever accused anglo-saxon males for being great in bed anyway...or terribly sexual.

In reality, SEX AND ESTHETICS have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.

[PaulOtt]

I am a man.

I have friends who are men.

I have friends who are women.

And since this topic is about friends of the opposite sex, I will discuss this third statement more indepth for the curious. I had no idea some people would actually claim it is impossible for a man to be friends with a woman without sex being involved.

Some of my female friends have been ex-girlfriends. One was a guy friend's girlfriend. Another was another guy friend's sister. Some of my female friends are girls I had considered dating, but for one or another we decided to be friends. Some are members of my Bible study group (as are their husbands).

Lest someone think I am merely including every girl I know as a 'friend,' let me explain. I am talking about over the course of 10 or so years, from high school to college to after college. I have moved and life goes on, but I have almost always had at least one close female friend that I was not sexually interested in or sexually involved with. I think just about anyone that is sociable will have similar experiences, sexual predators excluded.

If you cannot have a friend of the opposite sex without obsessing about sex, perhaps you should think about learning some self-control.

If you think for some reason it makes a man less of a 'man' to have a friend who is female, perhaps you don't understand what it is to be a man.

[Packratt]

I always think of my wife as my friend...

Does that answer the question?

*shrug*

I don't care, she's still my friend even though she's also my wife... nobody else's opinion will change that fact.

[G. Adams]

Yes it's possible from personal experience, even with hot lasses. Personally, I think women make better friends generally than men, though for your closest mates it doesn't matter. Women listen, give a shit about how I feel, usually more open and honest (not with other women it seems though, always bitching behind others back...) and smell much better. Women who are tomboy'ish are even better, can go out and get drunk with them and make an ass of yourself without worrying that they'll think your a pig, cause they are usually joining in.

And sex and attractiveness do have a major connection, it's not about a lack of testosterone. Biologically, if your limited to one partner at a time, you've got to find a partner who is a close match for you.

[Paavo]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
SEX AND ESTHETICS have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Ehhh...of course they do. I'm not talking about the way people look according to Cosmo, but a good looking person is more actractive, you can't deny that. And it's all about culture too in most cases. And if nothing else, just personal preference. I'd never hook up with a skinny girl, I like some meat on my females. (I know I sound like a macho asshole that f*cks anything that moves...but I've only had sex with one person and I'm still with her. And I'm 24....and no, I'm not butt-ugly. )
Saying that looks have nothing to do with sexual magnetism is just stupid IMO.


</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
If you cannot have a friend of the opposite sex without obsessing about sex, perhaps you should think about learning some self-control.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

What is "obsessing"?
I mean, I can't think of one girl (unless super ugly and stinking (check reply number one))I've known that I would never had wondered what she'd look naked. Call me a neanderthal ape if you will, but I can't see anything wrong with it. In fact, I'd be worried if I'd stop looking at women with that eye. Now this doesn't mean I'm going to hit on them or imply anything to them.


</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I always think of my wife as my friend...

Does that answer the question?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

No, it doesn't. My longtime girlfriend is my best friend too. I still f*ck her.

syra,

Some of it has to do with culture. There are islands where large women are considered top of the heap.

In the U.S., women hide their desires in order to appear holier-than-thou. The fat/ugly gal I might work, go to school, or socialize with will cry about wanting someone to love her for her, but will turn around and reject a similar male because she wants a 'hot' man.

The guys in here were trying to get your goat with their comments.

Looks play a part. If you're going to be physically intimate with someone, you need some sort of connection to work with. My beef is with the hypocrites in America. The same woman that cried about guys assuming she was sleeping around was the same woman talking about what she wanted to do with a particular guy.
Heck, I was in good shape and received my share of the compliments. It is the old 'I want to act like a devil and be considered a little angel' attempt to have it both ways.

In regard to the men that sleep with anything, develop some standards. Any clown can bed a cheap whore. Part of it is the 'worth' of the woman. Is she worth as much as a woman I had to win over? Would you value a man that worshipped you from the moment he saw you or a man that intially thought nothing of you and was won over by your charm? Was it a free gift or did you earn it? Do you value something you get for free or something you have to buy?

[DarkRose33]

ok...ManAgainstTime...um...have you no respect for a womans mind? Look past the tits man! It is still a person...I'm sure there are plenty of men who you do not understand. And I'm sure there are some women who you might actually relate with. I'm sorry if a great many of the women you have known were fake manipulating wenches but..geez! We are not all like that...I relate with men a lot better than with women. (and no, I do not like those domesticated males) I like men who are wolves. I like men...women can be crazy these days.
C'mon...give us a chance!!! We sane women are out there! Don't give up hope!!

[MASTERPEEVE]

This whole thread is pointless because any answer given is purely subjective, and, therefore inherently full of holes. Everyone here has had different experiences with the opposite sex, and their own sex. No doubt some men can be platonic friends with women and vice-versa. Others lie to themselves and pretend they're platonic when their mind and body are saying something completely different. It's all very personal, so it's ridiculous to argue over it.

As far as the cultural aspects mentioned in the thread (the loss of masculinity in society, the "anglo-American male" ideal of women, etc.), I only have to mention a few things to help display my point of view:

- Queer Eye for the Straight Guy

- Straight Plan for the Gay Man

...and some links:

http://magazines.ivillage.com/cosmopolitan

http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com/press01.shtml

I'll say it again, in the simplest terms possible: in the end it all comes down to personal taste and personal experience.
-Chris

[Samildanach]

What Chris said

[Atomica]

[castille]"Just to ease the seriousness of the political stuff....


Do you think guys are capable of purely platonic friendships with women?"


As a man myself I have had hundreds of such relationships with women and rarely have I had the desire to get them into the sack.
But I could be attracted only to women...