An exercise in dismantling logic supporting the War on Drugs

[atom_boom]

Pete Guither is a staunch drug law reform advocate and an excellent writer who, among other ventures, maintains a blog where he shares Drug War related news and opines on the current goings-on in that field. In his most recent post, he posits that if a one were to answer the five part question he puts forth that it would take " quite a bit of self-delusion to get through that exercise and still support criminalization".

Personally, I agree with Mr. Guither and I thought it might be interesting to pose this challenge to those here on this board that support the criminalization of recreational drugs.


The five part question is broken down as follows:

1. Dose the government have the authority to criminalize drugs?
2. Are drugs dangerous?
3. Will criminalization significantly reduce the danger?
4. Is criminalization the best way to reduce the danger?
5. Are the advantages of criminalization worth the destructive elements of prohibition?

There is more detail relating to each part of the question, and I suggest one read through the full article before attempting to answer these points. The article can be found here:

Legalization isn't the question

Very much looking forward to people's responses here!

[Senor Hoint]

Drugs should be treated as a public health problem. The Drug War and the mass incarceration it has spawned are the most important social issues in this country. People should be allowed to smoke weed legally because it's less dangerous than caffeine.

[Angry Citizen]

People should be allowed to smoke weed legally because it's less dangerous than caffeine.

... There's fact and then there's fiction. This statement, however well it may be intentioned, leans very heavily on the latter.

[atom_boom]

Drugs should be treated as a public health problem. The Drug War and the mass incarceration it has spawned are the most important social issues in this country. People should be allowed to smoke weed legally because it's less dangerous than caffeine.

Agreed, and its nice to know there is at least one other person that ranks the War on Drugs and the consequences of as the most important social issues we are facing. I usually get derided for expressing such a notion. I feel as if people believe that reform advocates are just junkies that want to get their fix without having to worry about the law clamping down on them and with a wanton disregard for the well-being of others. Shortsightedness and the machinations of a for-profit prison industrial complex and its ilk have stymied progress and do nothing to help people see the bigger picture: The war causes more harm than the enemy it's fighting.

[NoJingoLingo]

Don't kid yourself into thinking the drug war is merely about for-profit prison. There are quite a number of industries that do not want marijuana legalized.

BTW AC, marijuana may very well be less dangerous than caffeine. It's certainly less addictive and considerably less habit forming.

[Angry Citizen]

Masturbation is far more addictive and habit forming, but I don't think anyone here would rate it more dangerous or less dangerous than anything. There are greater things in heaven and earth than mere addiction. Notably, marijuana interferes with one's mental capabilities, and while there is little physiological dependence on marijuana, the fact remains that one can become very accustomed to it, and this can be a very bad thing. No one, and I mean no one, fails an important midterm because they're high on dr. pepper.

[Senor Hoint]

... There's fact and then there's fiction. This statement, however well it may be intentioned, leans very heavily on the latter.

Since the total number of deaths attributed to cannabis is zero (0), and the total number of deaths attributed to caffeine is a (small) non-zero number I don't see how this could possibly be a fiction. Virtually every activity you can engage in is more dangerous than smoking weed. Driving a car is more dangerous than smoking weed. Drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes, both completely legal drugs, both a lot more dangerous than smoking weed. Hell, there's more basis for making fast food and high-fructose corn syrup illegal than there is for making weed illegal.

EDIT: My statements, of course, hold if our metric for "dangerous" is death or severe bodily harm.

I usually get derided for expressing such a notion.

People are stupid. I'll be the last to say that hard drugs are positive for society, but tearing communities apart, militarizing the police, creating a vast black market economy complete with an unheard-of level of organized crime, throwing nonviolent offenders in jail, isn't the way to deal with it.

[LetThereBe]

Masturbation is far more addictive and habit forming, but I don't think anyone here would rate it more dangerous or less dangerous than anything. There are greater things in heaven and earth than mere addiction. Notably, marijuana interferes with one's mental capabilities, and while there is little physiological dependence on marijuana, the fact remains that one can become very accustomed to it, and this can be a very bad thing. No one, and I mean no one, fails an important midterm because they're high on dr. pepper.

That's only because you haven't tried shooting it.

[atom_boom]

... There's fact and then there's fiction. This statement, however well it may be intentioned, leans very heavily on the latter.

There are documented deaths attributed directly to caffeine overdose. The same cannot be said for marijuana. I think this is, by and large, the reason this argument that MJ is safer than caffeine is put forth. And it's a relatively sound argument, in my opinion. While I can't find any studies specifically comparing the safety profiles in the long-term of both drugs, I think to say that this assumption lies heavily in the realm of fiction does not much water. The assertion is that caffeine is more dangerous to ones health than marijuana seems to me absolutely plausible but I would love to see concrete proof in either direction.


Edit: I see this has been addressed, but I couldn't find a way to delete this post.

[NoJingoLingo]

Masturbation is far more addictive and habit forming, but I don't think anyone here would rate it more dangerous or less dangerous than anything. There are greater things in heaven and earth than mere addiction. Notably, marijuana interferes with one's mental capabilities, and while there is little physiological dependence on marijuana, the fact remains that one can become very accustomed to it, and this can be a very bad thing. No one, and I mean no one, fails an important midterm because they're high on dr. pepper.

Most of what you said is irrelevant to your statement. But Caffeine can cause nervousness and prevent focus causing you to fail your exam. Oh and certain strains of Cannabis Sativa can actually increase your focus.

[atom_boom]

Don't kid yourself into thinking the drug war is merely about for-profit prison. There are quite a number of industries that do not want marijuana legalized.

I'm not ignorant of that fact at all. I meant "ilk" to represent the various pro-prohibition interest groups, including Big Pharma and our current drug rehabilitation and treatment industry.

[Angry Citizen]

There are documented deaths attributed directly to caffeine overdose.

Then document them. Document me a death resulting from anything approaching normal use, i.e., not a laboratory condition.

The same cannot be said for marijuana.

As a direct result of marijuana, or an indirect one?