American views on income inequality.

[Dodds]

A study by Mike Norton and Dan Ariely has shown that a majority of Americans think their society is too unequal. No major surprise there

However what is surprising is not only to what level of income equality the majority of Americans think is desirable but also the bi partisanship of this thought.

According to the study 93% of those tested who are Liberals think the USA should have an income equality that resembles Sweden, one of the more equal countries in the world(of course there is still income inequality but not to the extent of the USA), no real surprise there, but what surprised me is that over 90% of Republicans agree with them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19284017

http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/no...in%20press.pdf

With such agreement on one of the most important areas of society why is there such a bitter fight going on between the 2 major parties in the USA? Can't we all just agree that the USA should be a more equal place and get the government to make it so such a thing would happen.

[Peter]

It seems to me that politics is becoming increasingly disconnected with reality here in the USA as it takes on more and more of a team mentality. Nobody seems to care much any more about what's the right and proper thing to do as much as our team must win at all costs. Our team must have a stance diametrically opposed to the other teams no matter what the issue. This mentality used to be just silly but its quickly becoming destructive. I would have democrats and republicans wear team uniforms to make it more obvious.

[Dieval]

A study by Mike Norton and Dan Ariely has shown that a majority of Americans think their society is too unequal. No major surprise there

However what is surprising is not only to what level of income equality the majority of Americans think is desirable but also the bi partisanship of this thought.

According to the study 93% of those tested who are Liberals think the USA should have an income equality that resembles Sweden, one of the more equal countries in the world(of course there is still income inequality but not to the extent of the USA), no real surprise there, but what surprised me is that over 90% of Republicans agree with them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19284017

http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/no...in%20press.pdf

With such agreement on one of the most important areas of society why is there such a bitter fight going on between the 2 major parties in the USA? Can't we all just agree that the USA should be a more equal place and get the government to make it so such a thing would happen.

From your link:

Americans Prefer Sweden
For the first task, we created three unlabeled pie charts of
wealth distributions, one of which depicted a perfectly equal
distribution of wealth. Unbeknownst to respondents, a second
distribution reflected the wealth distribution in the United
States; in order to create a distribution with a level of inequality
that clearly fell in between these two charts, we constructed
a third pie chart from the income distribution of Sweden
(Fig. 1).2 We presented respondents with the three pairwise
combinations of these pie charts (in random order) and asked
them to choose which nation they would rather join given a
‘‘Rawls constraint’’ for determining a just society (Rawls,
1971): ‘‘In considering this question, imagine that if you joined
this nation, you would be randomly assigned to a place in the
distribution, so you could end up anywhere in this distribution,
from the very richest to the very poorest.’’

Let's see...We're going to place you in a random society, then be randomly placed at a certain level of wealth in the society, which society would you want to be in? The one with a small percentage of rich people, which you have no real shot of being placed in or one where more people have more money? Hmmmmm....I'll take Sweden!

You really don't see the flaw in the way this study was done?

[NoJingoLingo]

from your link:



Let's see...we're going to place you in a random society, then be randomly placed at a certain level of wealth in the society, which society would you want to be in? The one with a small percentage of rich people, which you have no real shot of being placed in or one where more people have more money? Hmmmmm....i'll take sweden!

you really don't see the flaw in the way this study was done?

nope.

[Dieval]

nope.

[Apeman81]

Here's an Americans view on income disparity.

What I make affects me. What the other guy makes does not affect me.

I am free to put forth the time and effort to achieve skills in a variety of occupations which can lead to greater remuneration should I choose to do so. I am free to move from my present locale in search of increased remuneration should I choose to do so. I can, should I wish, strike out on my own to earn more.

[Peter]

What the other guy makes does not affect me.

Explain please because that assertion seems ridiculous. Of course what everyone else makes affects you because what everyone else makes affects prices.

[barts]

Here's an Americans view on income disparity.

What I make affects me. What the other guy makes does not affect me.

I am free to put forth the time and effort to achieve skills in a variety of occupations which can lead to greater remuneration should I choose to do so. I am free to move from my present locale in search of increased remuneration should I choose to do so. I can, should I wish, strike out on my own to earn more.

This works to some extent if you remain at the level of physical wage labor, say picking cotton or avocados. If, however, you need access to capital to start a small business or if you're a professional of some kind, none of this applies.

Also, Americans do not have equal or even equitable access to the education and training necessary to acquire marketable skills.

If what I'm saying is not true, then the other explanation for poor economic mobility in the United States is that Americans are inferior people to, say, the citizens of Sweden or Denmark or Canada.

[LetThereBe]

A study by Mike Norton and Dan Ariely has shown that a majority of Americans think their society is too unequal. No major surprise there

However what is surprising is not only to what level of income equality the majority of Americans think is desirable but also the bi partisanship of this thought.

According to the study 93% of those tested who are Liberals think the USA should have an income equality that resembles Sweden, one of the more equal countries in the world(of course there is still income inequality but not to the extent of the USA), no real surprise there, but what surprised me is that over 90% of Republicans agree with them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19284017

http://www.people.hbs.edu/mnorton/no...in%20press.pdf

With such agreement on one of the most important areas of society why is there such a bitter fight going on between the 2 major parties in the USA? Can't we all just agree that the USA should be a more equal place and get the government to make it so such a thing would happen.

Agree with Dieval. The methods employed by the study do not at all back your conclusion.

In either case, yes, most Americans probably want close income equality. It is the issue of having the state mandate it that they do not want. If there was a guarantee of equal work and equal effort and equal value of services/goods rendered... I think more would be on board with equal income.
As it stands, to guarantee these things would mean a tremendous sacrifice of freedom.

[Dieval]

From your link:



Let's see...We're going to place you in a random society, then be randomly placed at a certain level of wealth in the society, which society would you want to be in? The one with a small percentage of rich people, which you have no real shot of being placed in or one where more people have more money? Hmmmmm....I'll take Sweden!

You really don't see the flaw in the way this study was done?

Just thinking a bit more about how silly this survey is.....if you're going to show how people don't like an extreme, why is the example only showing one extreme? What do you think people would pick if they were shown 3 unnamed pie graphs (full of percents, and we all know how percents work) for the US, Sweden, and FairyLand with 80+% of the people all having all the wealth?
Or just be honest and use names: 1) Sweden 2) FairyLand 3) The United States of America and see what people choose..

Of course people are going to pick the option that gives them the best shot of not falling in to the bottom category, when everything is a complete mystery. Duh.

[Dodds]

Agree with Dieval. The methods employed by the study do not at all back your conclusion.

I thought the methods were pretty cool, its a good idea to see what people would think of being put into a society at any level to see what kind of society people as a whole want. Quote from the BBC link.

In fact, when we did this experiment another way and we showed people two distributions of wealth, one based on the wealth distribution in the US and the other based on the wealth distribution that is more equal than Sweden, 92% of Americans picked the improved Swedish distribution.

So this suggests to me that when people take a step away from their own position and their own current state, and when people look at society in general terms, in abstract terms, Americans want a much more equal society.

If you disagree with the method of testing etc, I feel you are just not taking yourself out of your current situation.

In either case, yes, most Americans probably want close income equality. It is the issue of having the state mandate it that they do not want. If there was a guarantee of equal work and equal effort and equal value of services/goods rendered... I think more would be on board with equal income.
As it stands, to guarantee these things would mean a tremendous sacrifice of freedom.

I disagree. How would there be any loss of freedom? Just because there would be more equality does not mean there would be less freedom.

[Dodds]

Just thinking a bit more about how silly this survey is.....if you're going to show how people don't like an extreme, why is the example only showing one extreme? What do you think people would pick if they were shown 3 unnamed pie graphs (full of percents, and we all know how percents work) for the US, Sweden, and FairyLand with 80+% of the people all having all the wealth?
Or just be honest and use names: 1) Sweden 2) FairyLand 3) The United States of America and see what people choose..

Of course people are going to pick the option that gives them the best shot of not falling in to the bottom category, when everything is a complete mystery. Duh.

And you disagree with the testing how? They have a better shot of being in the super rich part if they choose the USA. Its a slim chance but its a better one.

Also Sweden is a top heavy economy with the richest taking the larger slice of the pie. In other words I doubt you read the links properly.

Again I feel you are not taking yourself out of your present circumstance and are for some reason afraid of people having a more equal society.