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**Matt W** · Feb 21, 2005, 05:09 am

Well, well, well...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4282175.stm

Key point the article makes is that Gay couples with a 'civil partnership' will now be allowed to apply for married quarters.

It's expected the Army & RAF will sign up soon. Thoughts?

**Chris the Chees** · Feb 21, 2005, 08:22 am

While I am not a huge fan of the military, I can only say that this is a good thing. The sooner that this kind of policy is more widley used the better.

G. Adams · Feb 21, 2005, 09:57 am

I want to slowly see it introduced, regiment by regiment, don't want it affecting the morale of the troops.

**Pooeypants** · Feb 21, 2005, 01:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

I want to slowly see it introduced, regiment by regiment, don't want it affecting the morale of the troops.

What, do you think they'll suffer from cultural shock? I would've thought that in this century, it would've been less of an issue.

G. Adams · Feb 21, 2005, 01:53 pm

I take it your not from a working class background? the officers might be able to get away with it but amongst the squaddies it isn't accepted. I know what my home town is like, if you take all the ultra-macho types out of it and put them into one organisation, it isn't gonna be a friendly environment for homosexuals.

It's two different worlds, like comparing the Guardian to the Sun, and the army isn't on the Guardian side.

**Chris the Chees** · Feb 22, 2005, 08:56 am

Mr Adams, I happen to know people in the military personally and even have family members in the ranks. I can assure you that these people are not remotely homophobic. Ones social class is in my opinion no longer such a large issue regarding the generation of social inequality. At least not to the same extent as it may have used to have been.

**Matt W** · Feb 22, 2005, 09:07 am

Hmm. I reckon it would vary tremendously from regiment to regiment. Seriously, it would depend an awful lot on where the particular squaddies were drawn from, and what their 'speciality' was. I mean, take for example the Scottish Infantry regiments (eg the Black Watch), with the majority of the troops being from low-income (or 'working-class', if you prefer) Scots families. Not only have you the factor of Infantry being a seriously macho bunch, but combined with the attitudes & prejudices of their background, and it's reinforced. Whereas in, say, the Royal Engineers or the Ordanance Corps, you have a completely different makeup.

Just a thought.

G. Adams · Feb 22, 2005, 10:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chris the Chees

Mr Adams, I happen to know people in the military personally and even have family members in the ranks. I can assure you that these people are not remotely homophobic. Ones social class is in my opinion no longer such a large issue regarding the generation of social inequality. At least not to the same extent as it may have used to have been.

I know many people in the military, half of my friends from secondary went straight in, 2 more went in after a-levels. 6 went army, 2 went RAF, 2 went navy and 1 went Royal Marines. And I can tell you definitively, each and everyone was, and still is when I meet up, homophobic.

I'd suggest they just keep out of the Green Howards then, but as the government is going to get rid of it and make some new bigger regiment, you might not be able to rely on going for the right regiments. The best I could say it keep out of the infantry, and go for high skilled jobs where you'll meet more middle class soldiers.

**Matt W** · Feb 22, 2005, 11:50 am

Indeed. It's highly unlikely that any of those guys encountered homosexuals in any way, shape or form before they went to the forces - unless they were at a public school or a fee-paying 6th form college. This isn't to imply the old cliches about public schoolboys and all that, but merely that public schools tend to have a lot more diversity of expression, if you like. Being openly homosexual at any secondary school would be no picnic as children are always heartless & cruel, but if you're somewhere where your folks are paying vast amounts of money per term, there tends to be a bit more incentive for the school to look after its' pupils!

**Pooeypants** · Feb 22, 2005, 01:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

I take it your not from a working class background? the officers might be able to get away with it but amongst the squaddies it isn't accepted. I know what my home town is like, if you take all the ultra-macho types out of it and put them into one organisation, it isn't gonna be a friendly environment for homosexuals.

It's two different worlds, like comparing the Guardian to the Sun, and the army isn't on the Guardian side.

On the contrary, my home town is a crappy rural town in the middle of Lincolnshire, the majority of population work in farms and factories. I see where you're coming from but at this day and age, surely they would've gotten over it by now?

G. Adams · Feb 22, 2005, 03:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Pooeypants

On the contrary, my home town is a crappy rural town in the middle of Lincolnshire, the majority of population work in farms and factories. I see where you're coming from but at this day and age, surely they would've gotten over it by now?

There is a big leap between what should be and what actually is. I don't like the situation, but it's just how it is. And I don't think being politically correct and pro-active yet causing troubles in the barracks is a good trade-off. Homophobia has to be eradicated outside the army before you can try and apply such policies within an organisation like the military.

**Chris the Chees** · Feb 22, 2005, 03:31 pm

Quote:

I know many people in the military, half of my friends from secondary went straight in, 2 more went in after a-levels. 6 went army, 2 went RAF, 2 went navy and 1 went Royal Marines. And I can tell you definitively, each and everyone was, and still is when I meet up, homophobic.

Perhaps you converse with the wrong people perhaps :p? But on a serious note, none of the people I know are any more homophobic than any other normal person.

**Pooeypants** · Feb 22, 2005, 03:51 pm

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

There is a big leap between what should be and what actually is. I don't like the situation, but it's just how it is. And I don't think being politically correct and pro-active yet causing troubles in the barracks is a good trade-off. Homophobia has to be eradicated outside the army before you can try and apply such policies within an organisation like the military.

Eradication is impossible. Racism is still prevalent and that is even easier to "use". For example today, I walked past some Chav's and I could hear them going "Chink"... of course these lowly educated youngster are mostly to join the Army as cannon fodder. Oops, did I say that?

G. Adams · Feb 22, 2005, 04:11 pm

Actually now I think about it and compare it to racism, maybe we should let them in. Once the soldiers are actually sent into battle together they'll develop a trust quickly. Really, could you care less about the sexuality of your comrade when your being shot at?

SVMc · Feb 22, 2005, 04:15 pm

Quote:

Quoted By: G. Adams
Actually now I think about it and compare it to racism, maybe we should let them in. Once the soldiers are actually sent into battle together they'll develop a trust quickly. Really, could you care less about the sexuality of your comrade when your being shot at?

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. Despite the hyper-masculinzed (aka hyper-mocho) nature of the military one thing the military (and most indoctrinated environments) excel at is team building, unit cohesion and all manners of social construction. Basically if the military is serious about he acceptance of homosexuality without prejudice, they will regiment like other social conventions in the military. It will have bumps, but it should fly easier there than in parts of the bible belt.

castille · Feb 28, 2005, 05:42 am

Hey, at least it'll reduce rape and prostitution cases.

SVMc · Feb 28, 2005, 11:06 am

Quote:

Hey, at least it'll reduce rape and prostitution cases.

Originally I was going to just laugh and say yeah, good thing. Then I started to wonder since rape seldom has anything to do with sex drive, and has been shown to be more about an exertion of power and aggression... if increasing the number of homosexual soldiers would simply balance the instance of rape and prostitution between genders.

castille · Mar 1, 2005, 01:37 am

Quote:

Quote by: SVMc

Originally I was going to just laugh and say yeah, good thing. Then I started to wonder since rape seldom has anything to do with sex drive, and has been shown to be more about an exertion of power and aggression... if increasing the number of homosexual soldiers would simply balance the instance of rape and prostitution between genders.

Gender equality. Everyone gets raped/pimped, not just women. There you go, still some advantages.

SVMc · Mar 1, 2005, 09:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: Castille

Quote:

Quote by: SVMc

Originally I was going to just laugh and say yeah, good thing. Then I started to wonder since rape seldom has anything to do with sex drive, and has been shown to be more about an exertion of power and aggression... if increasing the number of homosexual soldiers would simply balance the instance of rape and prostitution between genders.

Gender equality. Everyone gets raped/pimped, not just women. There you go, still some advantages.

I think between the two of us we just came up with the most politically incorrect reason to increase gay enlistment.

mr.perfecto · Mar 1, 2005, 11:25 am

I was going to post that, but you beat me to it. Of course, I would have been serious in my statements, but at least the idea is floating around in peoples' brains.

Does the UK allow women to serve in its military?

Feb 21, 2005, 05:09 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,789	UK Armed Forces promote Gay Rights Well, well, well... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4282175.stm Key point the article makes is that Gay couples with a 'civil partnership' will now be allowed to apply for married quarters. It's expected the Army & RAF will sign up soon. Thoughts? I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes. Last edited by Matt W; Feb 21, 2005 at 05:13 am. Reason: Damn typos!

Feb 21, 2005, 08:22 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Chris the Chees Moderator Location: Wales Posts: 2,272	While I am not a huge fan of the military, I can only say that this is a good thing. The sooner that this kind of policy is more widley used the better. Society may be formed so as to exist without crime, without poverty, […] no obstacle whatsoever intervenes at this moment except ignorance to prevent such a state of society. Robert Owen

Feb 21, 2005, 09:57 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,161	I want to slowly see it introduced, regiment by regiment, don't want it affecting the morale of the troops. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Feb 21, 2005, 01:53 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,161	I take it your not from a working class background? the officers might be able to get away with it but amongst the squaddies it isn't accepted. I know what my home town is like, if you take all the ultra-macho types out of it and put them into one organisation, it isn't gonna be a friendly environment for homosexuals. It's two different worlds, like comparing the Guardian to the Sun, and the army isn't on the Guardian side. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Feb 22, 2005, 08:56 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Chris the Chees Moderator Location: Wales Posts: 2,272	Mr Adams, I happen to know people in the military personally and even have family members in the ranks. I can assure you that these people are not remotely homophobic. Ones social class is in my opinion no longer such a large issue regarding the generation of social inequality. At least not to the same extent as it may have used to have been. Society may be formed so as to exist without crime, without poverty, […] no obstacle whatsoever intervenes at this moment except ignorance to prevent such a state of society. Robert Owen

Feb 22, 2005, 09:07 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,789	Hmm. I reckon it would vary tremendously from regiment to regiment. Seriously, it would depend an awful lot on where the particular squaddies were drawn from, and what their 'speciality' was. I mean, take for example the Scottish Infantry regiments (eg the Black Watch), with the majority of the troops being from low-income (or 'working-class', if you prefer) Scots families. Not only have you the factor of Infantry being a seriously macho bunch, but combined with the attitudes & prejudices of their background, and it's reinforced. Whereas in, say, the Royal Engineers or the Ordanance Corps, you have a completely different makeup. Just a thought. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Feb 22, 2005, 11:50 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,789	Indeed. It's highly unlikely that any of those guys encountered homosexuals in any way, shape or form before they went to the forces - unless they were at a public school or a fee-paying 6th form college. This isn't to imply the old cliches about public schoolboys and all that, but merely that public schools tend to have a lot more diversity of expression, if you like. Being openly homosexual at any secondary school would be no picnic as children are always heartless & cruel, but if you're somewhere where your folks are paying vast amounts of money per term, there tends to be a bit more incentive for the school to look after its' pupils! I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Feb 22, 2005, 04:11 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,161	Actually now I think about it and compare it to racism, maybe we should let them in. Once the soldiers are actually sent into battle together they'll develop a trust quickly. Really, could you care less about the sexuality of your comrade when your being shot at? Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Feb 28, 2005, 05:42 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Hey, at least it'll reduce rape and prostitution cases. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Mar 1, 2005, 11:25 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	I was going to post that, but you beat me to it. Of course, I would have been serious in my statements, but at least the idea is floating around in peoples' brains. Does the UK allow women to serve in its military?