Poll: Trayvon Martin Case

[Ken Carman]

I hear "coons", so it isn't all that clear...

What does seem clear, to me, is the "oons" sound. It would be much easier to convince me he said "goons" or "loons" or, even "prunes", but I do not hear "unks" AT ALL.

Call me silly, but it would be just as easy to convince me he said "fucking lipstick", because "punks" doesn't fit much better.

Wish I had the original recording myself so I could drag it through processing. "Coons" is what I heard, and you're right: the audio STINKS. However, there may be more than one segment/recording/source we are all arguing about. Apparently there's a lot of audio on this out there, but my guess is we're not hearing all of it on a regular basis.

Then you have the problem that both sides try this stuff in the public arena, which complicates it all. Think it best to wait to the trial, to be sure... even that might be a big "maybe."

[lsbskins1]

I doubt he would say "coons" to the police. I heard "these fucking punks always get away". I think he was grouping Martin in with other previous criminals in the neighborhood.

If that is what you "heard' then I wonder what you were listening to, because you have juxtaposed two different statements.

Here is the portion of the tape that I, and others, believe contains the words "fucking coons" : DIAGNOSTIC: George Zimmerman Clearly says "Fucking Coons" Before Killing Trayvon Martin - YouTube

Here is a transcript of the call, and as you can see, the "these assholes always get away" statement and the "fucking [disputed]" statements are separated by almost a full minute of conversation. Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript – Trayvon Martin | Phoebe's Detention Room

So, if you heard "these fucking punks always get away", you were NOT listening to George Zimmerman.

[Ken Carman]

If that is what you "heard' then I wonder what you were listening to, because you have juxtaposed two different statements.

Here is the portion of the tape that I, and others, believe contains the words "fucking coons" : DIAGNOSTIC: George Zimmerman Clearly says "Fucking Coons" Before Killing Trayvon Martin - YouTube

Here is a transcript of the call, and as you can see, the "these assholes always get away" statement and the "fucking [disputed]" statements are separated by almost a full minute of conversation. Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript – Trayvon Martin | Phoebe's Detention Room

So, if you heard "these fucking punks always get away", you were NOT listening to George Zimmerman.

Looks like someone DID eq work on it. Be curious what setting 1, 2 etc are per frequency. But pretty obvious not "punks." The two words are not alike.

This is why I'm suspicious when it comes to what the prosecutor stated in what they issued to begin with.

[lsbskins1]

Looks like someone DID eq work on it. Be curious what setting 1, 2 etc are per frequency. But pretty obvious not "punks." The two words are not alike.

This is why I'm suspicious when it comes to what the prosecutor stated in what they issued to begin with.

I personally believe the prosecutor took the path of least resistence in the "fucking punks" claim. It is not a very good phrase for Zimmerman anyway (as it suggests a less than neutral attitude towards Martin) and it was the phrase his attorney publically claimed was the one he used. We know, if we are honest, that the disputed word can't be pleasant, as it is proceeded by the word "fucking" and from his lawyer's perspective, "punks" is much better than "coons", and since the tape is not studio quality, it will be almost impossible to get someone to swear under oath that Zimmerman says "coons". This, of course, does not mean he does not say "coons", it just means there is no way to really acheive a legal standard of certainty. So, it makes legal sense to accept the less than desireable "punks" and not try to force what you can't prove to the exclusion of all else.

[The Decider]

I personally believe the prosecutor took the path of least resistence in the "fucking punks" claim. It is not a very good phrase for Zimmerman anyway (as it suggests a less than neutral attitude towards Martin) and it was the phrase his attorney publically claimed was the one he used.

The pro Zimmy folks need the "coons" controversy worse than the prosecution to keep the race card alive. Many of them take Zimmy's side solely because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson didn't. Ironically, they need race to gin up the their side. The prosecutors just need to show that Zimmy had an agenda against undefined "punks." That those "punks" almost always were young black males in Zimmy's world is a conclusion that no sane juror could miss. A good prosecutor will have jurors thinking coon.

[ironeagle]

Also, just to clarify I actually can and will defend a racist murderer in my career since everyone has the right to legal counsel. However I do not think Zimmerman was proven to be racist, nor did he commit murder. If anyone doesn't want to debate a person who is willing to do so they don't have to comment. Defending racism is actually totally reasonable so long as the person has committed no crime using it. A person has the right to be racist, its ugly and stupid and I don't really understand it but they can like who or whatever they want or don't want. Being racist doesn't equate to being a murderer even if you are racist against the person's you killed. If it's self defense it doesn't even matter. I do see how or why Trayvon's race has anything to do with Zimmerman's guilt.

[ironeagle]

The pro Zimmy folks need the "coons" controversy worse than the prosecution to keep the race card alive. Many of them take Zimmy's side solely because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson didn't. Ironically, they need race to gin up the their side. The prosecutors just need to show that Zimmy had an agenda against undefined "punks." That those "punks" almost always were young black males in Zimmy's world is a conclusion that no sane juror could miss. A good prosecutor will have jurors thinking coon.

That's the worst mock presentation of a rediculous legal argument I've ever read. No one cares Trayvon was black except the criminals trying to murder Zimmerman or convict him. The word coon isn't relevent even if it was said which it was not and has been officially proven. That was a media tamper that they ought to be convicted for as far as I am concerned.

[BlackSheep]

He was a punk.

I have not been following this that closely, but I would appreciate if you could tell me how you know this.

[Ken Carman]

To repeat a claim I made on this thread, or another, regarding Zimmerman. Even if he were a racist, that would not prove murder... though it could be added to motive. And I too would be curious the proof behind the claim he was a "punk." Indeed the same claim could be made about Zimmerman that he approached this whole thing like a "punk" might. Provable? Eh, as much as the other claim.

[Chris the Chees]

I hear "coons", so it isn't all that clear...

What does seem clear, to me, is the "oons" sound. It would be much easier to convince me he said "goons" or "loons" or, even "prunes", but I do not hear "unks" AT ALL.

Call me silly, but it would be just as easy to convince me he said "fucking lipstick", because "punks" doesn't fit much better.

Given that 'punks' is what he actually said... clearly it does fit. In fact, nobody even really denies it anymore, not even CNN who were one of the first news outlets to popularize the bogus theory that Zimmerman said 'coons'.

CNN: Expert Reports George Zimmerman Said

The 'fucking coons' story is a perfect illustration of the power of suggestion. When I first listened for it, after I was told that it was on the tape, I too heard 'coon', until I re-listened a few times after someone else said that it was 'punk' - and they were right, and clearly so.

but I do not hear "unks" AT ALL.

Which is irrelevant, because that is what is on the tape as has been proven as CNN have admitted forcing them to change their tune on the issue - which they sure as hell wouldn't do if they had any option.

Of course, that doesn't stop the fact that this story could at least be partially about race. The fact is that Zimmerman profiled a young black teenager and concluded that he was a danger to the community. I suspect that had Martin been white then this probably would not have happened. That doesn't necessarily mean that Zimmerman was consciously racist, but tells us something about modern society.

[lsbskins1]

Given that 'punks' is what he actually said... clearly it does fit. In fact, nobody even really denies it anymore, not even CNN who were one of the first news outlets to popularize the bogus theory that Zimmerman said 'coons'.

CNN: Expert Reports George Zimmerman Said

The 'fucking coons' story is a perfect illustration of the power of suggestion. When I first listened for it, after I was told that it was on the tape, I too heard 'coon', until I re-listened a few times after someone else said that it was 'punk' - and they were right, and clearly so.



Which is irrelevant, because that is what is on the tape as has been proven as CNN have admitted forcing them to change their tune on the issue - which they sure as hell wouldn't do if they had any option.

Of course, that doesn't stop the fact that this story could at least be partially about race. The fact is that Zimmerman profiled a young black teenager and concluded that he was a danger to the community. In my view, had Martin been white then this would not have happened.

Oh, come on. Nobody has proven he says "punks". News organizations and many in the debate have simply accepted that it is a circular argument because of the quality of the original recording. What CNN was "forced" to do was to say that "his defense team and at least one expert say he said punks." That is hardly CNN saying, or anyone saying, it is a proven fact he did not say coons or that he did say punks. It is CNN saying just what they said. His defense team and one freakin' audio expert claim he says punks. Nothing has been proven. And when I listen to the enhanced version that CNN plays in your clip, it still sounds like "oons" and not "unks".

Here is my speculation. If you took that recording and played only the second word to a hundred people unfamiliar with the circumstance and asked them to tell you what the word was, you would get about 95 people guessing something that rhymed with loons and just about 0 people thinking the word was punks or trunks or drunks and 5 people saying they could not tell what he said.

[Chris the Chees]

News organizations and many in the debate have simply accepted that it is a circular argument because of the quality of the original recording.

The quality of the recording is just fine when you know what it says. And yes, CNN have changed their position, and the video where they initially made the claim has seemingly been removed. So clearly, even they don't believe it anymore not that it matters what they or you, or I for that matter, believe. More to the point, the people prosecuting Zimmerman do not believe it, and accept it as fact that he used the word 'punk'.

Affidavit: George Zimmerman did not use racial slur in 911 call | syracuse.com

And when I listen to the enhanced version that CNN plays in your clip, it still sounds like "oons" and not "unks".

Whatever. And black is white, up is down, or whatever other delusional interpretations you have convinced yourself of. Like I say above, it doesn't matter one little bit anymore (not that it ever did).

Here is my speculation.

Which is now beyond a moot point given that the prosecutor has ruled it out.