Help end state sponsored racism

[Mr.Vicchio]

Fight to end Affirmitave Action.

The only government program that gives benifits and special consideration to people based on the color of thier skin, and denies such to others, because they have the wrong skin color.

It's time to move into the 21st Century and help people that need help, not help people because they have the state approved skin color.

[Matt W]

So...50 years or so of Affirmative Action vs 250+ years of slavery & discrimination....and you feel it's all settled?

[Gorgo]

Where does this happen?

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Fight to end Affermitave Action. The only government program that gives benifits and special consideration to people based on the color of thier skin, and denies such to others, because they have the wrong skin color. It's time to move into the 21st Century and help people that need help, not help people because they have the state approved skin color.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Fight to end Affermitave Action. The only government program that gives benifits and special consideration to people based on the color of thier skin, and denies such to others, because they have the wrong skin color. It's time to move into the 21st Century and help people that need help, not help people because they have the state approved skin color.

The sins of 200 years ago should not be held against those living today.

The sins of 50 years ago were just that, 50 years ago. Blaming everything on what happened 50-100 years ago for todays problems isn't productive, or useful.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Gorgo Where does this happen?

Hmm...

Gorgo, is that a joke? Quota's for jobs, grants, scholarships. What is the basis for these?

Skin color, those with the "right" skin color get special consideration, those with the wrong skin color do not.

I believe that is the very definition of racism.

Perhaps you have a different defitinition?

[MerlinsByte]

(By Mr VicchioIt) time to move into the 21st Century and help people that need help, not help people because they have the state approved skin color.

(by Matt W :So...50 years or so of Affirmative Action vs 250+ years of slavery & discrimination....and you feel it's all settled?

With the perspective of being the owner of a small humanitarian non profit, I have to agree with Mr Vicchiolt. Its very difficult to determine who desperitely need help from those who are just starving with their children. That last statement sounds sarcastic but its true. The need here in the USA is greater that most would care to admit, say the government cronies for example.

The ideal would be a society that can feed educate and provide basic medical care to its citizens. I don't think even a semi ideal government exists on earth. Also I feel that if man would strive to practice the true intent of most religions we could achieve the ideal. The ideal church would provide the humanitarian assistance to those who need it , as a few do, on a small scale.

mb

ps the slavery issue is interesting, perhaps we should go back to Rome's white slaves or many other European white slave producing societies, I'm sure I've a blood relative who was a slave back in history...somewhere, can I get some sympathy here? (the ps was written tongue in cheek)

[Matt W]

Hmm. In principle, yes, I agree, but I am not entirely convinced that racism - against non-whites - has gone. Thus, I am sceptical about calls to abolish affirmative action when there are still headlines about racists within government institutions and organisations such as the armed forces and the police.

[Gorgo]

You didn't answer my question, Mr. V, where does this happen? Where do people, except white people, have an advantage over others in the United States?

"The only government program that gives benifits and special consideration to people based on the color of thier skin, and denies such to others, because they have the wrong skin color."

[Mr.Vicchio]

What advantage Gorgo, do white people have exactly?

I would love to hear this.

As for "racist" today, we have programs, we have laws, we have ways of reporting and dealing with such.

AA only masks the real problems, it doesn't solve anything, rather it creates more problems.

[Gorgo]

You haven't answered my question. Where does this happen?

[Mr.Vicchio]

I did answer the question, you chose to ignore the answer hoping I would give a specific example you could attempt to tear apart.

Start with Quota's, Scholarships and Diversity programs Gorgo.

Perhaps you could explain why a persons skin color should matter when selecting the number of students at a college, workers or who gets a scholarship.

[Gorgo]

Once again, you start a thread with a ridiculous statement, and nothing to back it up. I'll ask again as though I'm speaking to someone that cares about reality. Where is this happening? Where do you think non-whites have an advantage over whites?

[mr.perfecto]

Receiving any government benefit that you have to be a minority to receive?

[Gorgo]

Where is this happening? I haven't said that it's right or wrong. So far, I have seen no evidence that non-whites have an advantage because of state sponsored racism. Where is the evidence of that?

[ericsp23]

I personally don't like affirmative action. I think it is a racist policy. But on a practical level I don't think it is wise to end it yet. You can't just sweep away 250 years of slavery and discrimination and pretend they didn't happen. The consequences of those things are still present today. The statistics speak for themselves. If you are born into a minority family you are much more likely to grow up in poverty, receive a sub-standard education, and will likely continue to live in poverty for the rest of your life. Now, you can say that this must mean that minorities are somehow inferior, but I reject that argument out of hand. The only other possibility is that the deck is still stacked against them even though the racist and discrimitatory policies of the past have been eradicated.
Lifting them up out of the cycle of poverty has benefits for everyone, not just minorities. Yes, affirmative action is unfair, but in the long run everyone will be better off because of it, so I am willing to allow it to continue for the time being.

[The Dunedan]

Much as it pains me to agree with Mr. V, he's right on this one, Gorgo. For instance, in college admissions;
http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

This is Dave Curtin, the Higher Education Writer of the Denver Post: "Feb. 1 -- Colorado College, in an effort to attract minority and disadvantaged students, is dumping those stodgy old college-admission exams in favor of a novel Lego-building test for a handful of applicants. . . .The tests are seen as a way to help colleges maintain racial diversity even if racial preferences are eventually banned."

That's right; "Disadvantaged" and "minority" students are being admitted to University based upon their ability to play with a child's toy. The phrase "for a handful of applicants" is a good indication that this will be a blacks-only test; Caucasians and Asians will still have to take traditional entrance examinations.

[tinybear]

I say affirmative action is just an euphemism for racism. If this country wishes to end racism, it should also end affirmative action. It is unfortunate that two recent decisions of the US Supreme Court have failed to put the matter beyond doubt. This is a great disappointment. We have a right to expect more from the best legal brains in America, don't we?

http://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/respect/fall03-1.cfm

[Gorgo]

I think this is the article to which you refer, Dunedan. I couldn't find it at the link you gave us.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3897289c2ff6.htm

Please tell me how this supports Vicchio's idea. Where are whites at a disadvantage in this country thanks to "state-sponsored racism?"

[Mr.Vicchio]

I have a simple story I like to tell Gorgo, to explain this, it's exagerrate, but not by much.

Jane and Jill, both are friends in school, and both work hard. Jane is a white girl, Jill is a "minority". That's the only real difference between them. Jane is top of her class, Jill is middle to top. They both want to attend "Big U" and pursue the same degree.

Jane is denied entry into Big U while Jill gets in. Diversity on campus in action. Well Jane is fine with this, and goes to the next university on her list, for the same degree. Not as good or prestigious in the field, but 2nd best.

They both graduate and want to work for "Big Green" which is the best company in the world for thier degree. Best pay, best medical, best everything. Well Jane is denied again "Not enough minorites..." So she has to work at "Little Green" making less across the board. All good though right...

5 years later Big Green buys out Little Green and Jane and Jill are working together, both want that Upper Management Job. Everyone KNOWS Jane is the harder worker, better canidate, but when the time comes, the board selects Jill, because they need "Diversity in the Boardroom"

Each one of these incidents can and does happen in America. The only difference is, if it was white people selecting white people based on color, Jill could go to the government and action would be taken against the racist.

In reality, Jane can do nothing because it's all in the name of "Diversity/Affermative Action"

[tinybear]

It's high time the US Supreme Court comes out and say once and for all that affirmative action is unconstitutional.