Americans & Guns

[bugsbunny04]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Edge,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)


Ever hear of the black market? You can simply buy a gun illegally.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Dead Straight! It always pisses me off that those who want to pick up an ILLEGALLY imported and NOT LEGAL FOR SALE full auto AK-47 or M-16 could do so for less than half the cost of legal semi-automatic AR-15. It's been a few years since I checked, but the world market price for AK-47's was in the $180 range, AKM's (AK firing the 5.56nato) in the $330 range.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

AK: Avtomat Kalashnikov (Kalashnikov's Assualtgun, more or less), extremely reliable
AK-47: Russian, milled reciever, 7.62x39mm Soviet, copied in a few countries, basic design nocked off in many more, including israel (Galil, 7.62x51mm and 5.56x45mm NATO). The first generation.
AKM: Russian, stamped reciever (lighter, easier for the soldier to carry, and cheaper, but that actually is not the main reason for it, it really is to make it lighter, because it is designed with soldiers in mind), 7.62x39mm Soviet, copied in many countries, and because the operating system itself is unchanged, often interchangably referred to simply as stamped AK's, or even just AK-47. second generation. Copies are often made in other calibers, including 5.56x45mm NATO.
AK-74: Russian, stamped, 5.45x39mm Soviet, copied in Romania and mabey others. Have really cool muzzle break that makes it more controllable in full auto fire, often copied and mounted on other AK's. Often referred to as simply to as AK's or 5.45x39mm AK-47s because again, the basic design is unchanged. And the name of this one was actually a couple years off from when it really went into service, they called it the 74 instead of the 79 because 74 mirrors 47 and the Americans had the potential to think it was just a typo if we got wind of it. third generation.
AK-10X(101,102,103,104,105): current generation, available in defferent configurations and three calibers (5.56 NATO, 7.62 and 5.45 Soviet), third digit designates caliber and barrel type.

Oh yeah, your prices are wrong. They are a lot cheaper than that, especially in Pakistan, where you can get local copies for 200$ or a used Russian AKM for about 225$ and a used, local copy can probably be negotiated to about 75$, then their is basically anywhere south of the sahara in Africa, where, if you spend more than 50$ on a Russian AKM (so its got a few dings, thats the beauty of it, sumbitch still works), you are an idiot.

[SeanWah]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (NORMLperson,)
That is true,,,imagine if guns are outlawed or prohibited, then the black market would REALLY be dangerous.  The facts still remain though.  The 2nd ammendment is there for THE CHECKING OF TYRANNY!  I also agree that if this is to be embraced by those who believe in the 2nd, then they should, as citizens of the US, voice their opinions on what and where they think our country should act or voice if they feel that our leaders are going to far in certain aspects (*ahem* Patriot Act).  This CAN be done with out guns, if people can put aside differences, unite and organize, and move to get ahead somewhere.  Still, the 2nd ammendment's inclusion of firearms can be seen as a failsafe for the people as a defense against unchecked government power.  Education is extremely key in gun handling/control and also in general, in this country.  I'll end there because I hate reading super long entries that can usually be condensed to a paragraph. 

...uh no....but I can plead the 'fizif'!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
If the government really was ruling by tyranny and the common people wanted to revolt...I'm sure you'd need more than normal guns to take them down. Let's rally for ownership of RPGs, tanks, missiles etc...you'll need for that fight if it comes. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

No democratic government would send tanks and jets after a large scale uprising. It would be guerilla warfare in the extreme.

In guerilla warfare, the defenders have the advantage. In order to root out the defenders, the attackers have to expose themselves to fire. Such was the case in the Warsaw Ghetto. How else did a cadre of a half-dozen starved Jews take up four handguns and make asses out of the Nazi war machine?

[Poetic_Justice]

One can never say too much for home ground advantage in a war Sean

Also, second line reserves are much easier to handle than the front line units.

But it is indeed amazing what they did, because the second line of German troops were probably still good enough to take on the entire modern Canadian army.

[commonsense]

Dear Brit Pooeypants:
Lamentably I may well be "less free" to exercise certain personal choices in life here as an American than you might be in th U.K. which is what I refer to when I call for a return to our founding philosophies, which are obscured in our socialist-dominated schools, and could be grasped via the study of all our founders' contemporary writings and not merely their distilled form---our U.S. Constitution.

I have only extremely limited and admittedly purely anecdotal experiences with the MORALLY destructive and SPIRITUALLY exasperating effects of your (British) brand of socialism, but they were all sad. I'll offer these three representative examples:
The honest realizations of an old woman who sold cigars lamenting oppressive taxation, the injustice and folly of your socialized medical system, and the preferential treatment of bueaucrats,
The absolutely delusional babble regarding human nature and the rights of free men to bear arms from a lot of soused, queen-loving British Army servicemen, no greater load of pooftahs I hav ever encountered...
And the ravings of a half-baked transparently self-serving elitist pseudo-intellectual British ex-patriate feminist lawyer... Who resides in the U.S !!!!

....Not to mention the sad and confused state of your young girls (13 and 14) moral perspectives on sex and abortion brought on by your government's mandating a minor's right to abortion with aid from school counselors without parental knowledge... which I read aboard an awful British Airways flight.

Look, we all are subjected to propaganda or deliberately misleading statistics about other countries, yet it seems few posting here are aware of it or are willing to consider it.

I have heard of an unarmed British cop, shot in the line of duty by the rather recent (and inevitable) phenomenon of armed assailants in your utopia of civility (hooliganism?) and gun control...
Who, while in the best Churchillian national spirit had foregone paying for his own diagnostic tests in favor of waiting months with shrapnel in his shoulder, for his appointed doctors recommendations, wound up having to have his arm amputated which wouldhave been routinely avoided at any U.S. emergency room.
There's one poor bastard who really lived up to his British credo of unarmed cops.

What of hooliganism? Don't you realize that man is an animal, and that the only hope for his real ascendancy is to deal with his brutal side, to keep it in check, by preventing oppression by groups..as distatseful as it may seem, by encouraging every citizen to be armed? I belive that your outbursts of hooliganism are the natural respone to the unnatural "pseudo-intellectual shepherding" of mans spirit of self-determination. Even with the study of the Chinese, the most self-denying people on earth, the most culturally ordered...it can be seen that even they erupt in violent revolution to cast off their bureaucratic oppression, albeit less frequently than the rest of the world.

What of England's high rate of burglaries, and more shocking, home-invasion robberies? I have heard of people cowering in their beds at night while club-weilding gangs of youths enter their homes to rob them, pretending to be asleep lest they be bludgeoned to death in their nightcaps...

I do not carry a gun, yet feel free to travel in our inner cities' most lawless socialist-created slums, despite what Europeans are told of our crime rates and quality of life...

At least in the U.S. home invasions are all but unheard of... because the lone, isolated, little-old granny in her nightgown just might be packing heat.

[NORMLperson]

Brevity is the key to good communication.

[Samildanach]

Helll, whats this about owning guns if you are going to own weapons you want the best ones....I want my own rocket propelled nuclear weapons repository, after all its not nukes that kill people, its people that kill people is what I've always said. What I need is a good rocket powered nuke or two in my basement. That way when someone un-invited turns up at my front lawn KAPOW!! they get it right in the ass....I never liked postmen anyway...and those damn ticket inspectors...they could do with a good nuking.... Its our democratic right to carry weapons for self defense after all, and someone assaulting my car with a ticket..well...he was just asking for it if you ask me.
I want to meet up with like minded people so I was thinking about starting up our own association..the National Nuclear Weapons Association.....but thats too long...mind have to substitute it for the National Reactionary Association but hey thats ok. We could go down to the lake on saturdays and go fishing.....do some target practice....hell we could even go nuke the Japanese again...its been far to long since someone did that ...we could make it into a weekend field trip.

Ahhh, another individual without any understanding of History.

[SeanWah]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Samildanach,)
Helll, whats this about owning guns if you are going to own weapons you want the best ones....I want my own rocket propelled nuclear weapons repository, after all its not nukes that kill people, its people that kill people is what I've always said. What I need is a good rocket powered nuke or two in my basement. That way when someone un-invited turns up at my front lawn KAPOW!! they get it right in the ass....I never liked postmen anyway...and those damn ticket inspectors...they could do with a good nuking.... Its our democratic right to carry weapons for self defense after all, and someone assaulting my car with a ticket..well...he was just asking for it if you ask me.
I want to meet up with like minded people so I was thinking about starting up our own association..the National Nuclear Weapons Association.....but thats too long...mind have to substitute it for the National Reactionary Association but hey thats ok. We could go down to the lake on saturdays and go fishing.....do some target practice....hell we could even go nuke the Japanese again...its been far to long since someone did that ...we could make it into a weekend field trip.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

I do believe I speak for everyone when I say...

Just what in the hell are you thinking about?

[Paavo]

isn't it clear he was being sarcastic?

[bugsbunny04]

Or he could just be high. Or mabey he just does not like japanese folk. Or mabey he is...really is a smart ass and a f*cking idiot, simultaniously. Either way, he does not understand the issue, and he does not understand guns.

[Mozart1220]

I think it's intersting that the people who seem to memorise the "right to bear arms" part of the second amendment, seem to conveniently forget the "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" part.

Also, if the main reason for owning a gun is deterrence, why conceal? Why not wear that thing on the hip like Wyatt Earp?

It comes down to paople wantng others to think they are tough, like the ability to kill is cool. I think it's retarded. That's why you see so many stupid tattoos, and "no fear" stickers and "chicks dig scars" on tee shirts. How childish. It's all turned into a playground "who's got the biggest" contest. Even the loudest car stereo is a cool thing, which is the STUPIDEST prick fight imaginable.

Welcome to America.

[PatrickHenry]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mozart1220,)
I think it's intersting that the people who seem to memorise the "right to bear arms" part of the second amendment, seem to conveniently forget the "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" part.

Also, if the main reason for owning a gun is deterrence, why conceal? Why not wear that thing on the hip like Wyatt Earp?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
The main reason for citizen gun rights is that citizen disarmament is the prelude to a Police State. Where there are millions of guns in our homes and we know we have an absolute right to have them, government tyranny is restricted. I could envision the military using tanks and APCs on the population. Precision munitions, helos with rockets and miniguns, don't say can't happen here.

Militia is not the National Guard. Real, citizen militias have been tried and have found government provacateurs in their midst. If rule under the constitution is not restored, and martial law is declared after another 'terrorist' attack, don't give up your guns without a fight. Remember these words: Washington is not your friend.

[SeanWah]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I think it's intersting that the people who seem to memorise the "right to bear arms" part of the second amendment, seem to conveniently forget the "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" part.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
The sentence is constructed in such a way that implies that the security of a free state is merely one in a list of possible reasons that justify the existence of the right to bear arms. The second clause is NOT dependent, so the relationship between them is not one of limitation. The first clause could read, "The Earth, being filled with men from Mars," and the meaning, force, and impact of the sentence would remain completely unchanged (it would just be weirder).

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Also, if the main reason for owning a gun is deterrence, why conceal?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Who said the main reason for owning a gun is detterence? That's a dumb notion. The main reason for owning a gun is defense of the self, of the family, and of property.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
It comes down to paople wantng others to think they are tough, like the ability to kill is cool. I think it's retarded. That's why you see so many stupid tattoos, and "no fear" stickers and "chicks dig scars" on tee shirts. How childish. It's all turned into a playground "who's got the biggest" contest. Even the loudest car stereo is a cool thing, which is the STUPIDEST prick fight imaginable.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
It has nothing to do with that and you know it. People have families and children that they want to protect; many of them believe owning a gun is the best way to do this.
I could easily say that you're being childish because you're disguising your fear of guns (both of which are rooted in retarded sexual maturity) by saying it's uncool and that everyone who disagrees with you has a small penis, but I won't. You're saying what you think is right, even if you have to couch it in words of machismo the way you're doing.

Thanks Sean. I was going to say something to Mozart with his penis envy, but you did so much more eloquently than I would have.

[Mozart1220]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tusaki,)
Mhh. no not really.. ofcourse.. guns dont kill people, people do. But I was implying that having easier access to guns lowers the bar for people who want to cross the line.

But why is it 'good' to have guns? If allowing everyone to have guns increases death by gunfights 0.0001%, it must be bad right? I mean, I dont know -if- I'me right, but as far as I can tell America is the only country where alot of people are gun-zealots. Let me rephrase that; there is no country but America where guns are loved as much. And I just can't figure out: why? I've never touched a gun in my life and I couldn't ever think of a reason why I would be happy to have one.

Protect! Protect! you would say... well.. is it really that nessicary in America? I've got a feeling it has something to do with people having easy access to guns :) (sorry.. sorry... must remain objective...)

But seriously, what are your reasons?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>


Marijuana hes never killed anyone and it's illegal.

Guns don't kille people, but they DO help. You can't just run up to soumeone and yell "BANG" and have them die, unless of course they have a dodgy ticker...

[Impenitent]

your amp isn't loud enough...

as Nigel said... "These go to eleven..."

[Mozart1220]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dave654,)
Thanks Sean. I was going to say something to Mozart with his penis envy, but you did so much more eloquently than I would have.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

What is this infatuation with the word "penis"? I have one and I'm happy with it thank you very much, as is my girlfriend.

I also own a Winchester 20 guage and a S&W .32 revolver, and I know how to use them. I do not FEAR guns, but I do understand thier primary use is for KILLING THINGS, therefore I think they should be liscenced and registered as THE SECOND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION ALLOWS. The "well regulated" part of the amendment is NOT about "men from mars" as you so STUPIDLY put it. It means that in those days we had no standing army to protect against FORIGN invasion. We do now, so we DON'T NEED MILITIAS.

This macho, pseudo-military attitude is just the kind of thing that inspired Timothy Mcviegh and the kids at Columbine to believe that violence and killing is the way to solve problems. Violence only begets violence.

Why do you think Jesus is called the "Prince of Peace"?

I nelieve people should be allowed to own CERTAIN KINDS of guns. Civillians don't need assault weapons and armor peircing bullets. Deer do NOT wear flack jackets, nor do 99% of the criminals who are walking around.

We need to take a look not only at WHAT we are defending, but WHY.

By dick is big enough. I don't need a loud stereo or a gun in my pocket to prove my manhood. I prove it by working hard, taking care of my family and obeying the law.

[commonsense]

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

-Thomas Jefferson Papers

Not Bambi, Mozart

[commonsense]

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be necessary until they try to take it away."---T. Jefferson

[Mozart1220]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,)
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

-Thomas Jefferson Papers

Not Bambi, Mozart<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

If you honesty think that you could defend yourself against the government with any weapon you could personaly keep in your home you are delusional, and the only government you have to worry about is the one currently in control. THEY are the ones taking away your rights through the "Patriot Act" and the "Homeland Security Dept."
Most gun control advocates are against these things.

Cars need to be registered and you need a liscence to operate them and their main function is TRANSPORTATION. Not everyone is allowed to operate just any vehicle. There are restrictions.
A gun's main function is TO KILL, yet it many states, anyone can buy anything they want. The Brady bill is basicly toothless. There needs to be MANDETORY education and liscensing before a gun can be owned, and yearly registration. Laws need to be passed to ensure that anyone using a gun in a crime gets such a serious sentance that they wil not be around to do it twice.
There is NOTHING unconstitutional about liscensing or registering firearms. IF the government wanted to take them from you, they would do it. Period. They would just go house to house and get them. and if you tried to stop them with your little pea shooter, I'm sure they would find a way to stop you. That's what Tomahawk missles are for.
Gun regulation would only help law enforcement. Many of my family are police officers. It's frightening to think of them out there where the criminals and drunken rednecks are better armed than they are.