Americans & Guns

[SeanWah]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Ok rocket scientist Doc, in the US, the states with Concealed carry allowed have far lower crime rates that states that will send to to jail for carrying.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
That's not always the case. I'm extremely pro-gun but there's no point lying to get our point across -- that's what the gun-grabbers do.
Both Alabama and California are dangerous states. Illinois is a helluva dangerous state, and you can't get permits anywhere, no matter what. Nebraska is uber-safe, and you can't get permits anywhere there, either.
Alaska is universal, but dangerous. Vermont is universal, but safe.
The comparisons are inaccurate, ESPECIALLY if you believe that gun control has no effect on crime. If it doesn't, then the converse is also true, and it isn't.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
The only counrty I can think of with extreme gun control with a low crime rate is Japan. And Japanese culture pretty much negates guns being an issue anyway.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
It has nothing to do with a preference for swords (which I don't even think is true, anyway, since the total Japanese homicide rate is extremely low). The Japanese simply view murder differently than we do, and when they do it, they do it expecting to be caught. Their suicide rate is also through the roof.

[bugsbunny04]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (SeanWah,)

That's not always the case. I'm extremely pro-gun but there's no point lying to get our point across -- that's what the gun-grabbers do.
Both Alabama and California are dangerous states. Illinois is a helluva dangerous state, and you can't get permits anywhere, no matter what. Nebraska is uber-safe, and you can't get permits anywhere there, either.
Alaska is universal, but dangerous. Vermont is universal, but safe.
The comparisons are inaccurate, ESPECIALLY if you believe that gun control has no effect on crime. If it doesn't, then the converse is also true, and it isn't.


It has nothing to do with a preference for swords (which I don't even think is true, anyway, since the total Japanese homicide rate is extremely low). The Japanese simply view murder differently than we do, and when they do it, they do it expecting to be caught. Their suicide rate is also through the roof.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You're correct. My examination of Japan was rather incomplete. It would take me countless hundreds of words to describe the relationship between Japan's culture, the non presence of firearms, the preference of swords, the low crime rate, the high suicide rate. So I'm just going to let that dog rest.

We will return to issues here in the states and in countries with at least somewhat similar cultures so we can make direct comparisons.

Alabama is not the safest place, but it tends to be obvious who is a gun nut and who is not around here, and criminals can tell the difference. That's why I get plenty of "gangsta" wannabees running there d*ck suckers at me, but none of them try anything. They don't wanna die, and they know I've got the means and the will to send them to hell. In California, I would be dead already.

I don't know much about Nebraska, but I'm sure if they are not allowing permits, and the crime is still low, it is because of culture, not because gun control is working. That actually goes back to Japan. Japanese people have plenty of access to the weapons they would rather use anyway, and still don't have much crime, because of culture.

I don't know much about Alaska, but I do know I would be more worried about hypothermia than getting shot because honestly, besides, Alaska is a dangerous place because it is still basically a frontier area. Now, I know a lot of people would disagree with that, but it is true.

Vermont is safe because of culture.

Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part, control does more harm than good, in cultures where they are the prefered tools for killing people and where the killer instinct is prevelant.

[AnonT]

I live in Nebraska, and I know a lot of people who own guns. The maintenance guy in my apartment complex has about two dozen guns in his apartment. Judging by the Nebraskans I know, we have slightly higher firearm ownership rates than the rest of the country. As far as concealed carry permits, I've heard from people that it's very easy to get them here, and I've heard from others that it's a hassle. It may be more of a hassle than in some places, but it's less than in others.
Anyway, a large part of the reason for Nebraska's low crime rate is that over half the state's population lives in rural areas, and rural areas generally have far lower crime rates than urban areas. Here in Omaha (largest city in the state), we have higher crime rates than in most of the rest of Nebraska, although they're still fairly low in most neighborhoods.

[Jackney Sneeb]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (AnonT,)
I live in Nebraska, and I know a lot of people who own guns.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
I live in Los Angeles, and a lot of people own guns here, too. There are some people who own pit bulls, too. The most effective weapon against a pit bull is a so-called saturday night special. Also, some people have been mauled by mountain lions recently in neighboring Orange County:
"A mountain lion was shot by authorities late Thursday after two bicyclists were attacked in an Orange County wilderness park, one of them a woman who was dragged and injured. The body of a man who may have been mauled by the same animal also was found nearby, authorities said.

"Last September, game wardens shot and wounded an aggressive mountain lion spotted near an equestrian center in San Juan Capistrano. A second lion was seen, but along with the first was never found.

"The threat of mountain lions has become an increasing problem in Southern California as development encroaches upon rural areas that have been home to various animals.

"In 1986, 5 -year-old Laura Small was attacked while looking for tadpoles with her mother in Ronald W. Caspers Wilderness Park in Orange County.

"The girl's mother was able to rescue her daughter whose skull was partially crushed by the mountain lion's jaws. She was left blind in one eye and paralyzed on her right side.

"Months later, a 6-year-old boy was mauled in the same park. County supervisors closed most of the park to children for nearly a decade. The ban was lifted in December 1997."

Not all predatory animals are lawyers, you see.

--Jackney Sneeb

[commonsense]

You Europeans make me sick. You have your little coffees, your little purses, your little scooters, your little trinkets and gadgets, you drone on and on about the esoterics of wine appreciation with your little pinkies extended and nose in the air...and pontificate about the degree of civility you have, and about the evolution of human nature while gobbling up skewed statistical propaganda critical of U.S. life, yet just below the surface of your moisturized and probably made-up skin, you are all seething with jealousy of American freedom, calling us cowboys, while hating and squabbling amongst your own national and continental comrades...
America has its problems: but they are directly proportional to the degree of self-serving bureacratic manipulation and taxation we suffer from, drug laws especially, the same false statistical "scare" tactics our armed agencies use to gain female and "intellectual" votes that misinform you europeans about American crime,and our social ills that are not the result of "savage, rampant, greedy capitalism" as you think, but rather from the spiritually destructive nature of our own paternalistic social programs that exploit the uneducated for bureucratic opportunism, and the ideological pursuit to dumb-down the rest of us by our fanatical socialist-dominated academia.
Even with all that, it will be You phony bastards that erupt in bloody violence, war and revolution before we will,,, (when was the last time? how long ago? two generations? Hah!)and then you'll find the guns somewhere. You live your lives quietly dominated by bureaucratic elitism, suffer under political, class and royal family privelege far more than we Americans do...while you distract yourselves with your bogus "cultural" diversions sipping this or that seated in your grand plazas that monarchs continue to enjoy from the inside....while you eat your hearts out knowing you will never afford to own your own land or home.
Our Americans were the first, (and probably last) honest, honorable men of power in all human history. Despite america's historical faults, their philosophy is the only hope for mankind: That human nature is a constant, does not change, that individual men are compelled by nature to be more good to one another than bad (hidden camera TV shows prove this, even in our supposedly least-friendly, crime-ridden cities), and it is only when power is institutionalized, or someone pins-on a badge, (or a red, brown or black shirt perhaps?) only then that the evil nature in man is allowed to flourish. The invention of individual firearms is with us for good, and like it or not,freedom and equality are embodied in the armed citizen, the founding fathers recognized this eternal truth and created a minimalist set of rules to deal with this truth. That's why we must be unfettered to carry guns. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... PUT THAT IN YOUR EXPRESSO MACHINE AND DRINK IT!

[Pooeypants]

Ahem, well that was a fine example of rage and prejudice.
...carry on. :rolleyes:

[Comrade]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,)
I mean we have sex ed don't we?

P.S.  A nice little stat, NRA members have the lowest per capita instances of either being murdered or murdering others with, being robbed, or having accidental death by rifle...  very interesting eh? I think that shows what education does...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Sex ed. lol. You mean that thing that they show us in school that are only allowed to teach abstinance and nothing about alternate forms of contraceptive?

And who would even try to rob or murder a member of the KKK.

I mean, NRA.


Common Sense guy.
Wow. You need a chill pill.

[NORMLperson]

Thank God for the 2nd ammendment, because when the people realize that our government's actions after 9/11 were ploys to ammend people's anxieties and stimulate consumption for the capitalist machine, (the market dropped significantly, in case no one knew. It dropped so low that Bush had to appear on TV like a doofus to read his cue cards that said "BUY MORE COMMODITIES, THE RICH AREN'T GETTING ENOUGH PROFITS). It's also interesting that new ammendments like the 'patriot act' now track our every keystroke and phone call, as well as movement. I'll use Bugs' method here:

Ponder: U.S. soil was finally attacked (pearl harbor also counts, I guess), which was a big shock to the nation. Afghanistan has a very complicated history if colonization (from Russia) and other groups that are within it's history. There must have been a reason why there was an aggression against us. And I'm sick of ignorant Americans, who have no experience of the East Asiatic countries and the middle East, linking Osama to Sadam. The causes are what need to be explained, instead of the effects (such as the patriot act). This nation is not fit for a totalitarian regime, which is what the patriot act leans us toward.


Ponder: Maybe we aren't always the friendly stars and stripes that come to 'liberate Iraq'. Why didn't we help Castro liberate Cuba from that nasty dictator Bautista, who did more than his fair share of torture. Why didn't we help liberate Algeria from the French, who also did their fair share of torture. Why didn't we help the Sandinistas liberate themselves from their dictator in Nicaragua. These countries have something in common. There wasn't an American 2nd ammendment for the people, but they took it upon themselves to use arms to rid the facist oppressors. Luckily, the 2nd ammendment gives us that right.

[tman_ndsu08]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tusaki,)
Just wondering, could an American explain to me why allowing everyone to have guns is a good thing?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You're question assumes that some people have the right to tell the rest of the country what they're allowed to own. Wrong.

[Poetic_Justice]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Comrade,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Poetic_Justice,)
I mean we have sex ed don't we?

P.S.  A nice little stat, NRA members have the lowest per capita instances of either being murdered or murdering others with, being robbed, or having accidental death by rifle...  very interesting eh? I think that shows what education does...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Sex ed. lol. You mean that thing that they show us in school that are only allowed to teach abstinance and nothing about alternate forms of contraceptive?

And who would even try to rob or murder a member of the KKK.

I mean, NRA.


Common Sense guy.
Wow. You need a chill pill.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Sorry mate, in Canada our sex ed is a bit more inclusive, although you have to admit that abstinence is the best form of protection But yeah, I'm working on the asumption of sex ed in Canda, i forgot your guys sex ed consists of showing all the nasty diseases you can get and then saying, don't do it!

Oh, and check yur history, the NRA were formed to fight against organizations like the KKK, Grant, the guy who outlawed the KKK was even one of the NRA's first presidents. And Charlton Heston used to march with Martin Luther King Jr. The NRA also formed special chapters during your blokes civil rights activism period of the 60's which had the special task of buying old WW2 weapons to give to blacks to protect themselves against the KKK.

Sorry, I may not like all the NRA's motives and campaigns, but a smear campaign comparing them to the KKK is jsut a bit ludicrous.

[FreedomFirst]

NORML - The "capitalist machine" that you're talking about is actually more of a socialist machine. People get extremely rich because of market restrictions that would not be present in a free market.

[Haik]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,)
You Europeans make me sick. You have your little coffees, your little purses, your little scooters, your little trinkets and gadgets, you drone on and on about the esoterics of wine appreciation with your little pinkies extended and nose in the air...and pontificate about the degree of civility you have, and about the evolution of human nature while gobbling up skewed statistical propaganda critical of U.S. life, yet just below the surface of your moisturized and probably made-up skin, you are all seething with jealousy of American freedom, calling us cowboys, while hating and squabbling amongst your own national and continental comrades...
America has its problems: but they are directly proportional to the degree of self-serving bureacratic manipulation and taxation we suffer from, drug laws especially, the same false statistical "scare" tactics our armed agencies use to gain female and "intellectual" votes that misinform you europeans about American crime,and our social ills that are not the result of "savage, rampant, greedy capitalism" as you think, but rather from the spiritually destructive nature of our own paternalistic social programs that exploit the uneducated for bureucratic opportunism, and the ideological pursuit to dumb-down the rest of us by our fanatical socialist-dominated academia.
Even with all that, it will be You phony bastards that erupt in bloody violence, war and revolution before we will,,, (when was the last time? how long ago? two generations? Hah!)and then you'll find the guns somewhere. You live your lives quietly dominated by bureaucratic elitism, suffer under political, class and royal family privelege far more than we Americans do...while you distract yourselves with your bogus "cultural" diversions sipping this or that seated in your grand plazas that monarchs continue to enjoy from the inside....while you eat your hearts out knowing you will never afford to own your own land or home.
Our Americans were the first, (and probably last) honest, honorable men of power in all human history. Despite america's historical faults, their philosophy is the only hope for mankind: That human nature is a constant, does not change, that individual men are compelled by nature to be more good to one another than bad (hidden camera TV shows prove this, even in our supposedly least-friendly, crime-ridden cities), and it is only when power is institutionalized, or someone pins-on a badge, (or a red, brown or black shirt perhaps?) only then that the evil nature in man is allowed to flourish. The invention of individual firearms is with us for good, and like it or not,freedom and equality are embodied in the armed citizen, the founding fathers recognized this eternal truth and created a minimalist set of rules to deal with this truth. That's why we must be unfettered to carry guns. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... PUT THAT IN YOUR EXPRESSO MACHINE AND DRINK IT!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Way to stereotype all europeans, you fat, uneducated, yellow cheese eating, budlight drinking, truck driving, blue-collar slob. Feels good eh?

[commonsense]

You're right...I am fat and do drive a truck, although I prefer many international beers. At times, I can even be as snooty as the European stereotype I described. As for my education, like I said, I suffer under our elitist academia with their socialist goal to either dumb us down or indoctrinate our youth, the better to turn us into a third-world "egalitarian paradise" they plan to one day preside over.
Nice come-back, but you say nothing of the philosophical premise espoused by our long deliberately-obscured Founding Fathers' efforts that a free armed populace is humankind's real hope to lasting civility, if not an eternal end to wars... And the fact that all you intellectual europeans, so civilized, are still factioned at your core while you tend the still-fresh graves of your parents.

[Marine Inspector]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tusaki,)
Just wondering, could an American explain to me why allowing everyone to have guns is a good thing?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

It keeps the crime rate down. Criminals don't like to rob or harass people with guns.

Marine Inspector

[cellphonessuck]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tusaki,)
Mhh. no not really.. ofcourse.. guns dont kill people, people do. But I was implying that having easier access to guns lowers the bar for people who want to cross the line.

But why is it 'good' to have guns? If allowing everyone to have guns increases death by gunfights 0.0001%, it must be bad right? I mean, I dont know -if- I'me right, but as far as I can tell America is the only country where alot of people are gun-zealots. Let me rephrase that; there is no country but America where guns are loved as much. And I just can't figure out: why? I've never touched a gun in my life and I couldn't ever think of a reason why I would be happy to have one.

Protect! Protect! you would say... well.. is it really that nessicary in America? I've got a feeling it has something to do with people having easy access to guns :) (sorry.. sorry... must remain objective...)

But seriously, what are your reasons?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Every household in Switzerland has an automatic rifle inside. They have one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Every male is required to serve in the military and is discharged with a weapon. So we are not the only country that has a lot of guns and I am sure there are plenty of others around the world who "love" guns just as much as an American.

[commonsense]

Any Israeli's out there? I would like to hear evidence that what I suspect is a healthy gun culture among the entire population does not produce the negative domestic effects our pro-cop-hiring propaganda machines tell our mothers.
I don't claim to know, but I suspect no Israeli mother is concerned with little johnny shooting himself or his friend as he climbs a chair to get his daddy's desert eagle down from a top shelf, like our curiously funded TV ads portray here...

[Impenitent]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (commonsense,)
Any Israeli's out there? I would like to hear evidence that what I suspect is a healthy gun culture among the entire population does not produce the negative domestic effects our pro-cop-hiring propaganda machines tell our mothers.
I don't claim to know, but I suspect no Israeli mother is concerned with little johnny shooting himself or his friend as he climbs a chair to get his daddy's desert eagle down from a top shelf, like our curiously funded TV ads portray here...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

of course every third Israeli you see on the street is openly carrying an uzi or other type of gun, but the lefties in the american media don't want you to know that... and I do know, my family lived there

[terstorm]

i knew israelis had uzis and guns, and i get my news from that libra' media, heh. it makes sense, since they have compulsory military service for everyone.

i got no problems from guns. i occasionally get death threats so now i have a permit and gun. self defense...praise that second amendment.

and im a "liberal" lol.

[commonsense]

Cool Impenitent!!! Spread the word brother!

...But you didn't address my main point... How can the Israeli homelife example show emotionally-driven, instead of logically-driven voters, male and female, that a culture develops around gun safety when they are prevalent in the home?

My telling my CNN watching, "I won't allow cap-guns in my home" sister-in-law that after all, lil' Daniel Boone and Davy Crocket never blew their toddler heads off with the shootin' iron over thar propped-up in the corner of their log cabins growing up!

By the way...I love visiting the Dominican Republic, where after suffering for decades under the abuses of the Trujillo dictatorship and ousting his myriad special forces, republican guards, regular police and military did a hell of alot more than shake the citizenry down for stale donuts and trumped-up traffic fines, that friendly but poor people, almost everyone is armed!

What's that famous slogan? "Never Again" ?

[bugsbunny04]

[quote=Comrade,]

Quote by: Poetic_Justice, And who would even try to rob or murder a member of the KKK. I mean, NRA. Common Sense guy. Wow. You need a chill pill.

I don't like what you are implying. The NRA supports the 2nd Ammendment rights of every American, no matter what color your skin is or whether you have any on your tally whacker.

And as an answer to your question, in its first wording, any Black American that has just been called a nigger by a retard wrapped in bed sheets.

In it's second wording: Anybody who feels ready to resign from humanity.