Is This A Victimless Crime?

[tinybear]

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/crim...10&floc=NW_1-T

Who thinks it is? Who thinks it's not? Please say why.

[Lou Minotti]

No, slavery is not a victimless crime. Nice try Tiny. Next....

[tinybear]

What slavery?

[Lou Minotti]

The mother is forcing her kid to work. Slavery.

[tinybear]

No it's not. The kid's helping out the family voluntarily. The family benefits; the kid benefits. Everybody benefits, including the buyers of the drugs, right?

[Lou Minotti]

It says nothing about being voluntary in the article you posted. It's not a matter of who benefits and who doesn't. It's about freedom and tyranny...get it?

[tinybear]

Says nothing about her being forced to. Let's suppose (which is likely) she did it voluntarily. Do you still say it's slavery?

[Pooeypants]

No, selling cocaine does not benefit those who use it for recreational purposes.

Btw, isn't it like nearly 4am over there? Don't you sleep?

[tinybear]

Quiet. I'm studying.

Sorry, who did you say was the victim in this case?

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: tinybear Quiet. I'm studying.

At 4 in the morning? Unlikely.

Quote by: tinybear Sorry, who did you say was the victim in this case?

The child is being exploited, maybe she doesn't understand this but that is what's happened.

[Lou Minotti]

The victim is the child. The crime is child abuse. She could have been selling Drano. Makes no difference. Next....

[Leebert]

Quote by: tinybear No it's not. The kid's helping out the family voluntarily. The family benefits; the kid benefits. Everybody benefits, including the buyers of the drugs, right? ... Says nothing about her being forced to. Let's suppose (which is likely) she did it voluntarily. Do you still say it's slavery?

tinybear, I'm guessing you are playing devil's advocate?

The thing about chidlren is that they do net yet have the same level of physiological and psychological development than an adult has...so the act of doing something voluntarily takes on an entirely different context when applied to children. Would it be ok for a child to be molested if they were voluntarily going along with it? Would it be ok for a parent to sell their child to someone for sex if the child went along with it? I could go on and on.

Regardless of your opinion on the wisdom of outlawing drugs, they are an illegal substance. Not only is it wrong, but I believe evil, to corrupt and endanger a child's life by having them sell drugs.

Is it a victimless crime? You tell me...is there no victim when some heroin addict beats the kid to death and takes all the heroin and money and runs? Is there no victim when a person, high on their fix, kills a family in a car accident? What about the child whose life is devestated because their mother or father is in jail or forces them to live in squalor without proper education, clothing, food, shelter because they spend all their money on their fix? Again, I could go on and on.

[Lou Minotti]

is there no victim when some heroin addict beats the kid to death and takes all the heroin and money and runs?

Obviously. Someone is a victim of a beating, like you said.

Is there no victim when a person, high on their fix, kills a family in a car accident?

Obviously. Someone is victim of DUI, like you said.

What about the child whose life is devestated because their mother or father is in jail or forces them to live in squalor without proper education, clothing, food, shelter because they spend all their money on their fix?

What about them? They are victims of shitty parents.

I could go on and on.....

[tinybear]

Lou>You could go on and on, but you'd still be wrong. :)

Leebert> I am (playing devil's advocate that is).

[Korgmeister]

What the hell sort of person sends an 11 year old out in their nightgown to sell drugs?

Might as well hang a sign around her neck "Unwanted child. Please rape and murder."

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: tinybear Lou>You could go on and on, but you'd still be wrong. :) Leebert> I am (playing devil's advocate that is).

Ah, objection over ruled, you've not brought the case on point to point of why he is wrong on all those counts. Try again.

[tinybear]

Well, isn't it obvious? Lou always finds some scapegoat when the obvious culprit is the drugs.

For instance when a child's life is "devastated because their mother or father is in jail or forces them to live in squalor without proper education, clothing, food, shelter because they spend all their money on their fix", he/she is a victim of shitty parents. Come on, without drug pushers and the drug trade, would parents (who naturally love their children) deliberately do this to their own flesh and blood if they had the choice?

Again, when a person, high on their fix, kills a family in a car accident, should we not we stop and think why this accident occurred or whether it could have been averted if the driver wasn't 'high on his fix'? Who gave him the drugs? Drug peddlars and the drug trade, that's who

In the final analysis, what made them shitty parents? Answer: drugs. What made the driver high on his fix? Answer: drugs.

[The Dunedan]

tinybear;

You obviously have no concept of Personal Responsibility, or of how truly shitty people can be towards each other. Someone CHOSE to take the drug; nobody held them down and poured it down their throat or blew it up their nose. Likewise, the majority of child-abuse and neglect cases in this country don't involve illegal drugs; they are frequently related to perfectly-legal alchohol, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Survey. Drug-addiction is the result of a CHOICE to take the drug.

Look up the famous case of Robbie Wayne, if you want to see how people can abuse their own kids without drugs being involved. Look up the dozen-or-so cases of "cage kids" that turn up every year in the US. If you can stomach it, read about the infanticides in Russia, where the Spring Thaw every year reveals thousands of babies who'd been abandoned in the snow to die because their parents either didn't want them or couldn't afford them. Drugs are not the problem; EVIL is the problem, TB.

Nothing "made" people shitty parents, they made a conscious decision to be shitty parents. Nobody "made" Driver X kill that family: he made the conscious decision to drive while impaired. The PEOPLE are to blame, not the substance. This is typical of the Statist mindset, which posits that the Individual is irrelevant and incapable of either affecting their life either for good or ill: everything ( to a Statist ) is controlled by some outside force over which the individual exerts no control and before which the Individual is powerless: the drugs MADE them shitty parents, the gun MADE him kill his wife, the booze MADE her drive drunk, poverty MADE him beat people up for fun.

[tinybear]

Evil is the problem and drugs is one of its favorite instruments. When people first take drugs, they do not become shitty parents and maniac drivers overnight. They always think it's not going to be addictive or it's not going to turn into a habit...etc But, sadly, it does. Gradually but surely it will gain control over your mind and soul until before you know it, it's too late to turn back. They say money is the root of all evil. Yes, but the root has grown and expanded and one of its tributaries is drugs.

[Pooeypants]

Without evil there can be no good. Anyway, you're telling this into a deep philosophical issue...