The Case of Illinos vs. Cabelles

[tinybear]

By the way, I do not take alcohol in any form and if our government chooses to ban it, I won't shed a tear. But even assuming that beer is as bad as drugs (which I dispute), how can two wrongs make a right? Come back to the issue, please. Cabelles committed a crime. No doubt about it. You say the law should let him go. I say if that happens the law is stupid. What's your answer to that?

[Lou Minotti]

I said the law shouldn't break the law. But I'm a constitutionalist and I don't believe the govt has the right to regulate what people choose to put in their bodies assuming they aren't harming someone else's body while doing it. I never said "beer is as bad as drugs". I alluded to the FACT the dried flowers of the Cannabis Sativa aren't nearly as harmful as to the equivalent of diluted kerosene.Fact.

[tinybear]

Lou> For your information, the law and the constitution need not be this rigid. In many countries similar to ours the Court is given the discretion to admit or exclude unlawfully obtained evidence, depending on the individual circumstances of each case. If the admission of the evidence would be oppressive or unfair the Court would exclude it. If, however, it would not be unfair and the accused suffers no prejudice (apart of course from the fact that the evidence would be used against him), the evidence will be admissible despite it being unlawfully obtained. What do you think of this compromise position?

[Lou Minotti]

What do you think of this compromise position?

I think nothing of it. This is America. Land of the free. This isn't Europe as much as some wish it was. Our system wasn't set up so that jack-booted skinheads with low self esteem could violate people's civil rights in order to charge them with victimless "crimes" to fill the same private prisons that propagate the phony drug war.

[tinybear]

I see. So in your view, our police officers are "jack-booted skinheads with low self esteem" and the peddling of drugs is a "victimless crime". Fine, you're entitled to your view, however perverse. Ha!

By the way, would your view be any different if Cabelles was a serial rapist/murderer and a teenage girl victim were found in the trunk of his truck?

[Lou Minotti]

So in your view, our police officers are "jack-booted skinheads with low self esteem"

The ones that violate the 4th admendment, yes.

the peddling of drugs is a "victimless crime".

The selling of pot is a victimless crime, yes. By definition. Can you show damages to those not involved?

would your view be any different if Cabelles was a serial rapist/murderer and a teenage girl victim were found in the trunk of his truck?

Your emotional hypotheticals don't have any effect on me. No, my views wouldn't be different. If Cabelle is ritually killing people, prove it without breaking the law.

[tinybear]

http://www.wctu.org/false_promotion.html

[Lou Minotti]

http://www.wctu.org/false_promotion.html

Uhhh, what exacly does this person's opinion have to do with the topic at hand? Who is promoting pot?

[tinybear]

Harmful effects of pot. Sellers of pot profit. Buyers and users of pot suffer. Sufferers are victims.

[Lou Minotti]

Quote by: tinybear Harmful effects of pot. Sellers of pot profit. Buyers and users of pot suffer. Sufferers are victims.

Not all sufferers are "victims". Can you show me an instance where "buyers and users of pot" hurt anyone besides themselves (the defintion of a victimless crime)?

[tinybear]

Buyers/users of pot=the victims of the peddlers/sellers of pot (i.e. people like Mr. Cabelles)

[Lou Minotti]

The buyers and users of pot that have an actual adverse physical reaction to it (a phenomenon so rare it's never reported) are paying the price of their own life-choices and are not victims of any crime.

[Osborn F Enready]

Tinybear, who tells you how much you can spend on clothes?

Who tells you what video games, or leisure hobbies to buy?

Who tells you how to act?

You do, thats who. Why is it ok for the government to regulate marijuana, yet they found prohibition of alchohol highly unconstitutional?

Who tells you what drugs to take for a headache?

Who tells you what drugs to take for heartburn?

You do, thats who.

Do you even have a clue as to HOW marijuana was made illegal?

[tinybear]

No I don't actually. But it's illegal. If you think it should not be, then take it up with your congressman and lobby for its decriminalization. But Cabelles was no user. He was a peddlar. The amount of cannabis found on him was large.

[Osborn F Enready]

Tinybear, he was a supplier, in the last shred market of supply and demand.

There is a demand, he fulfills it with his access to supply.

Who created this black market? How? Why?

The man is being hassled over a vegetable, that was made illegal by paper manufacturers, and racists. Know your history please, the informed opinion on marijuana has left the stone age.

[tinybear]

Boy you make a illegal drug pusher sound like your poor average family man making a honest living and being harassed by the big brutal boys in blue.

[Lou Minotti]

216 pounds of dried flowers.... I don't see where the government should enter this equation. "Take it up with your congressman and lobby". Got a few billion dollars to compete with the private prisons, defense contractors, tobacco and textile producers? Cabelle was a businessman. Just like the guy that pours my Guinness. An OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people favor pot's decriminalization. One of many examples where the Federal government subverts the Constitution and ignores the will of it's people.

[Osborn F Enready]

You never did answer the question did you bear?

Do you even have a clue as to how marijuana became illegal?

[tinybear]

No I don't. I said so earlier. But does it matter? It was and still is illegal when Cabelles was arrested.

[Lou Minotti]

It matters only if you think things that matter matter.