Sick Britain

[orgaelin]

I'm not sure what is wrong in this country, but there seems to be a trend now where every few months there is a child abused and murdered. It seems to be happening more and more, to the point where it's almost expected, like turning on the news and knowing you're going to hear about Iraq.

Just this week, a family round the corner from me lost their 14 year old daughter to an unknown murderer, who left her naked 6 month pregnant body lying in a churchyard near the school. I see her father every day as he picks up his kids and drops them off at school, always with them, even though the eldest is 10, still walking them to and from school. His son comes round my house and plays with my son. This is about as close to my doorstep as I'd care for this crap to get.

Is it just me, or has there been a huge increase in the number of sick bastards in the world? Every time one child victim fades from the headlines, another one is killed to fill in.

It's times like this that people start to wonder why there is no death penalty in the UK. I normally argue against it, but if you asked me now I might be swayed. Some people need to have visited back on them what they have done to others.

I don't allow my children to play out. My eldest is 8 years old, and we have five kids altogether. I never let them outside except with an adult, ever. Am I wrong in this, or do I have my head very firmly screwed on? To my mind, even my doorstep is not safe. I would only let my children out to play if they had sat-nav and I could see where they were on a radar screen at any time! What's the world coming to?

[Nono]

Does it happen more often in the UK than elsewhere? If so, a productive avenue of inquiry is obviously child-rearing traditions. I've always found the whole English public-school-fag-torture bit fairly hair-raising.

Then there's the fact that grief pornography is big media business in the UK. I cite the Kenneth Bigley case as a recent and egregious example.

It's times like this that people start to wonder why there is no death penalty in the UK. I normally argue against it, but if you asked me now I might be swayed. Some people need to have visited back on them what they have done to others.

Well here we go with another death-penalty debate, eh?
I'd first ask whether it would make the slightest dent on the problem, or whether -- to the contrary -- it might ultimately poison the atmosphere even further.
Then I'd cite the far too many miscarriages of justice that have been -- very belatedly -- brought to light in the UK in recent years.

Imagine having the noose around your neck, and you're innocent. Just imagine.

[Matt W]

To be honest, I 'm not sure whether the media are just more effective at discovering these things, or if there's just a greater willingness to talk about it. I mean, think about all the sexual abuse cases from 20-odd years ago which are only just now surfacing.

Plus, thinking about it, attitudes have changed dramatically. These days, the public see every murder as a threat to their saftey...but how many just went unreported or uninvestigated during the 50s, 60s and 70s? Just a thought!

In my folks' neighbourhood, and in mine (which appears to be far less safer & suburban), the kids play out all the time. So far, so good.

[Chris]

I would say no, you are not wrong.

You don't want to take any chances. As far as the "eye for an eye" thing, I agree. We should only use it in the most extreme cases i.e. Jeffry Dhamer, et al

And those who molest and murder children.

[Matt W]

Another thought. The age of innocence is gradually dropping again, after being artificially raised by the Victorians and subsequent generations over the past century. I mean, this girl was 6 months pregnant at 14??? Good grief. I think children (specifically girls) become more open to abuse the more adult they act (ie makeup, clothes and so forth) without being aware of potential risks or being able to fend for themselves.

Thoughts?

[faith]

Quote by: Matt W Another thought. The age of innocence is gradually dropping again, after being artificially raised by the Victorians and subsequent generations over the past century. I mean, this girl was 6 months pregnant at 14??? Good grief. I think children (specifically girls) become more open to abuse the more adult they act (ie makeup, clothes and so forth) without being aware of potential risks or being able to fend for themselves. Thoughts?

she could have been 12 and 6 months pregnant so the f**k what, are you saying she brought it on herself? she was actually wearing a tracksuit so it couldnt be because she was dressed like a tart! Even if she was no one deserves to be killed and left naked for all to see, it could have just as easliy been an older female and if you notice most murdered girls/women are the innocent one's!!!!!

[Matt W]

Faith:- No, I'm not saying that. Read my earlier comment, ok? I'm saying that it's not necessarily the populace becoming more sick, just that more attention is being paid to stuff like this, teenagers grow up very fast - though people seem to have forgotten that, and that was about the sum total of my comments. Any other flame you'd care to direct at me now????

[faith]

Matt W i didnt mean for it to seem as though i were having a go at you, i know most people do think along the lines of what you were saying about makeup, clothing ect people forget fashion and makeup are forced down girls throats from as soon as they can read a magazine or watch the t.v,Girls dont get up in the morning and think *now shall i wear this or will i be raped or murdered by some animal that calls themself another human being*

also when you said about her being 14 and 6 months pregnant whats not to say she hadnt already been raped by someone and that is how she is pregnant or just as easily if she hadnt have been killed she could have been a just as good or even better of a mother as females twice her age!!

[Matt W]

Faith:- Fair comment indeed. Mind you, I think we'd have probably heard about that by now and the rapist (if uncaught) would be No.1 suspect! Still, there are some sick people out there.

[faith]

Quote by: Matt W Faith:- Fair comment indeed. Mind you, I think we'd have probably heard about that by now and the rapist (if uncaught) would be No.1 suspect! Still, there are some sick people out there.

i totally agree!!
Friends?? lol

[Chris]

I dont see why anyone would want to harm a child. It is a crime in the highest degree.

[Catch 22]

meh I guess there may be a slight increase, but it's nothing truly consequential. If it there is an increase it wouldn't surpirse me though. Most violent crime is linked to high poverty, poor education, and lack of comunity cohesion. Considering the growing poverty and wealth inequality(new deal or no new deal labour isn't for the working man anymore) , the weakening of the education system and the upsurge in racial tensions, I would say the UK is poised for more violent crime.

[faith]

Quote by: |Chris| I dont see why anyone would want to harm a child. It is a crime in the highest degree.

in my opinion there are only 2 reasons why anyone would kill/harm a child first being mental illness which they maybe helped with but if not lock them up for the safety of other people, second plain and simple evilness which should as orgaelin said be punishable by death as they are no good nor use to anyone! amen

[jose]

look at the jail sentance for rape in UK compared to the sentance for murder and youll see why many rapes end in murder

[Songbird]

Quote by: faith also when you said about her being 14 and 6 months pregnant whats not to say she hadnt already been raped by someone and that is how she is pregnant or just as easily if she hadnt have been killed she could have been a just as good or even better of a mother as females twice her age!!

I find it hard to belive that a 14 year old could be a better mother than a 38 year old. For one, the 14 year old will not have the maturity or life experience to deal with the responsibility of a child. Also, she will be depending on her parents to help care for the baby. She will be forced to drop out of school at least temporarily, therefore making it harder later on for the teenager to get a job. The baby will also probably have a rough early childhood. How will this turn out well for anyone?

Please realise i'm not saying that she should have been killed-no one deserves to be raped or murdered.

On another note, has anyone picked up Seventeen, or any other magazine of the like recently? There is almost nothing of worth inside the typical teen magazine. The articles are all about the newest fashions, the best value on makeup or what diets are effective. Thoughtful, meaningful articles are few and far between. This is of course in addition to the makeup advertisements every other page.

No wonder the "age of innocence" is dropping.

[faith]

Quote by: Songbird I find it hard to belive that a 14 year old could be a better mother than a 38 year old. For one, the 14 year old will not have the maturity or life experience to deal with the responsibility of a child. Also, she will be depending on her parents to help care for the baby. She will be forced to drop out of school at least temporarily, therefore making it harder later on for the teenager to get a job. The baby will also probably have a rough early childhood. How will this turn out well for anyone? .

You find it hard to believe but that deosnt mean its not possible!!

also seeing as the girls was pregnant when she was killed it should be a double murder inquiry!

[faith]

Anyone with a daughter will know most of the toys out there are baby dolls with any accessory you can imagine, prams, cot, feeding equipment ect even dolls that cry and poo!!

so we shouldnt really be shocked when a girl comes home saying she's pregnant when she's been brought up thinking thats what females are expected to do.

completely off the topic orgaelin started by hey what the hell!

[Matt W]

Faith: Friends indeed.

As for the death penalty...no. I'm sorry, but think of the amount of innocents who would have been put to death if we still had it. Is State-run murder any better than 'normal' murder? Is an 'eye for an eye' worth it if you're taking someone else's eye? Granted, we have better standards of evidence and so forth, but I am not willing to let the Sun and the Daily Mail hound someone to death through their lynch mob mentality. We got rid of it for several good reasons - we still have it around for treason, I think, but every bugger who's done that has been lucky enough to escape!

[Songbird]

Quote by: faith Anyone with a daughter will know most of the toys out there are baby dolls with any accessory you can imagine, prams, cot, feeding equipment ect even dolls that cry and poo!!

Oh please, since when have 14 year olds play with baby dolls? Even playing with barbie dolls is uncool after about 9 or 10. No, I stick by what I first said(and what I believe others have said) Children are being forced to grow up too fast by tv, magazines, and pop culture.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: orgaelin I don't allow my children to play out. My eldest is 8 years old, and we have five kids altogether. I never let them outside except with an adult, ever. Am I wrong in this, or do I have my head very firmly screwed on? To my mind, even my doorstep is not safe. I would only let my children out to play if they had sat-nav and I could see where they were on a radar screen at any time! What's the world coming to?

From a detached point of view, you are wrong AND right at the same time. On the one hand, I have always felt that being an overprotective parent harms the child more than helps and the odds that something like that might happen to YOUR kid, especially in the same general area, are extremely high. A little freedom is important for a growing child in that when carefully managed it promotes responsibility and helps a child deal with many situations himself.
That's the wrong side, and it doesn't really apply to you as this is forced upon you by a real concern and is NOT a "mother hen" reaction aimed only at keeping the little dears withing eyeshot. Your duty as a parent IS first and foremost to protect your offspring and you are doing it. The sad part is that it is necessary.
I come from a time of unlocked doors and kids staying out late, with vague orders to "stay close to home", and where a stolen bicycle was one of the biggest crimes the neighborhood would have, which has been replaced by murder.
It's a shame your children can't live in those days, but because they can't you are being a proper, concerned parent. There is nothing wrong with your actions.