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Thread: Mexican citizen executed in Texas

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    Destroyer of Worlds minorwork's Avatar
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    Mexican citizen executed in Texas

    Should Texas execute a Mexican citizen? Texas Governor Rick Perry decided it could. At 6:21 PM Friday, Humberto Leal Jr., died from lethal injection.

    Should Texas Execute a Mexican? Rick Perry Will Decide - Chris Strohm - Politics - The Atlantic
    If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.

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    Volcanic Erupter
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    I'll have to contact him on Tweeter and ask if it was the right thing to do.
    "The place of the worst barbarism is that modern forest that makes use of us, this forest of chimneys and bayonets, machines and weapons, of strange inanimate beasts that feed on human flesh"

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    Always Have A Towel Sigma_Tau_Theta's Avatar
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    If the treaty was ratified by the Senate (if it follows law, then Congress and the President), Texas has to follow the treaty. The president has no power when it comes to treaties and no singular power for laws.After that, if he did not have benefit of consul, then it is a mistrial. As for the execution for the count of murder as a result of a fair trail, then it's okay with me

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    Right of Center Dieval's Avatar
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    Did the "Mexican citizen" commit a crime where the penalty is death, in Texas?

    There's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's it in Texas, it's probably in Tennessee......Don't mess with Texas!

    Oh, and btw:

    At 6:21 PM Friday, Humberto Leal Jr., died from lethal injection.
    It's not 6:21 PM on Friday yet....how is this guy already dead?

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    Destroyer of Worlds minorwork's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Dieval View Post
    Did the "Mexican citizen" commit a crime where the penalty is death, in Texas?

    There's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's it in Texas, it's probably in Tennessee......Don't mess with Texas!

    Oh, and btw:


    It's not 6:21 PM on Friday yet....how is this guy already dead?
    Huh. So this is Friday? Tsk, thought today was Saturday. My wife's on your side.
    If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.

    When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.

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    Did the "Mexican citizen" commit a crime where the penalty is death, in Texas?
    Yes. But the problem in this case isn't that he's been executed (a totally different travesty of human rights), it's the fact that he was not notified of his right to contact the mexican embassy before the trial started, a violation of his lawful right.

    USA 'breached international law' executing Mexican convict - Telegraph
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    Volcanic Erupter
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    Since there is no doubt about his guilt, what people are really complaining about is the fact that he wasn't advised of methods to obfuscate that fact in order to avoid the consequences of his actions.
    I upped my income, up yours.

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    Destroyer of Worlds minorwork's Avatar
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    Why do so many think he should have been advised? Even if the enforcement officers had known of his citizenship, why would they have been obligated to advise him? Don't see the obligation myself.
    If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.

    When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.

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    Žižek is my Homeboy. Second as Farce's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: minorwork View Post
    Why do so many think he should have been advised? Even if the enforcement officers had known of his citizenship, why would they have been obligated to advise him? Don't see the obligation myself.
    ...because it's the law? Because precedent matters? Seriously, freaking NORTH KOREA follows this law (and that may have saved an American citizen's life)- do we really want to deny consular access to those accused of capital crimes, especially when we know that other countries will be able to justify responding in kind when dealing with American citizens?

    To quote former Legal Counsel to the State Department John Bellinger: "It should be obvious to anyone, including officials in Texas, that if Americans, including Texans, are arrested and detained in some other country and the United States complains that they have not been given their consular notice it will be pointed out to us that the United States doesn't comply with our own international obligations."
    "Hegel remarks that all the events and personalities of world history occur twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce." -Karl Marx

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    Destroyer of Worlds minorwork's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Second as Farce View Post
    ...because it's the law? Because precedent matters? Seriously, freaking NORTH KOREA follows this law (and that may have saved an American citizen's life)- do we really want to deny consular access to those accused of capital crimes, especially when we know that other countries will be able to justify responding in kind when dealing with American citizens?

    To quote former Legal Counsel to the State Department John Bellinger: "It should be obvious to anyone, including officials in Texas, that if Americans, including Texans, are arrested and detained in some other country and the United States complains that they have not been given their consular notice it will be pointed out to us that the United States doesn't comply with our own international obligations."
    I doubt guaranteeing consular access is the law, much less that there is in the Miranda rights such notice when the arresting officers are ignorant they're arresting a Mexican citizen. Presuming they were so ignorant.
    If the terrain and the map do not agree, follow the terrain.

    When motherhood becomes the fruit of a deep yearning, not the result of ignorance or accident, its children will become a new race.

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    Its not something where he has to be informed immediately upon arrest, but international law states he has the right to consular help before his trial.
    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
    – George Bernard Shaw

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    fit ee oan aboot? Dodds's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: minorwork View Post
    I doubt guaranteeing consular access is the law, much less that there is in the Miranda rights such notice when the arresting officers are ignorant they're arresting a Mexican citizen. Presuming they were so ignorant.
    http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/ins...s/9_2_1963.pdf

    The execution was in violation of international law.
    You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due. : Dick Cheney

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