Abortion?

[Arov]

Hey all, I just wanted to start this thread because recently my friend asked me exactly why I'm in favor of abortion being legal. I told him "To be perfectly honest, I'm not 100% sure why, I will get back to you on that."

So, I'll just list some ideas that I have and/or agree with when it comes to being in favor of abortion and I want you guys to criticize my ideas as much as you possibly can (obviously I'll try and defend them). Also, let's keep things nice and friendly.

Actually, I don't even know what I really agree with as far as ideas/arguments go. So....I'm Pro-Choice, tell me why I'm wrong and tell me why I'm right.

Keep it friendly. Seriously.

Also, sorry if this is in the wrong catergory - if it is will a moderator move it for me, please?

[GreyMatters]

Why don't YOU do the research, and get back to us with a position you can support or defend. Look up when life begins scientifically, look up the % of abortions that are done in cases of rape or incest, look up the socio-economic implications of having a child at young age, look at the religious implications also.

Do the work, and cite your sources. It's a debate forum, not an elementary education forum.

[crimethinker]

Look up when life begins scientifically

"Life"?

[el ايمان]

Yes, there is already an abortion thread, but these posts will likely be merged into it so I'll respond here. Welcome to the forums, by the way.

You are pro-choice because, likely, you recognize that a mass of cells does not constitute a baby, and that theoretically your finger is also a mass of cells that could be turned into a human with the use of far-advanced stem cell technology.

It also means that you probably recognize that with the illegalization of abortions comes alongside suppression the lower class by forcing them to bring fetuses to term, thus severely hindering the futures of young men and women in this country. By extension, the likely-poor-quality-of-life that the full term fetus will bring to its parents will result in it having a poor quality of life, which it will probably not escape, even into adulthood.

Furthermore, you are capable of seeing anti-abortion legislation as a ploy by racists and the wealthy alike to preventing class mobility, as it keeps the poor downtrodden. You are aware that the excuse "if we make abortion illegal people will learn not to risk getting pregnant" is a blatant lie, because only a ridiculously stupid person could witness the worldwide market for illicit drugs and deceive themselves into thinking that illegalisation of a good or service will stop demand for or prevent behaviours that lead to the demand for that good or service.

Basically, being pro-choice in at least one circumstance means that you are able to think logically and with reasonable compassion.

[Maryjane]

Post moved~ Since you're Pro-Choice, I think Society and Rights fits the category better, don't you?

[Maryjane]

Why don't YOU do the research, and get back to us with a position you can support or defend. Look up when life begins scientifically, look up the % of abortions that are done in cases of rape or incest, look up the socio-economic implications of having a child at young age, look at the religious implications also.

Do the work, and cite your sources. It's a debate forum, not an elementary education forum.

A little more tact when you address new members would be appreciated.

[Arov]

Why don't YOU do the research, and get back to us with a position you can support or defend. Look up when life begins scientifically, look up the % of abortions that are done in cases of rape or incest, look up the socio-economic implications of having a child at young age, look at the religious implications also.

Do the work, and cite your sources. It's a debate forum, not an elementary education forum.

When life begins scientifically is a debated issue, some scientists do say that it begins at conception - obviously there is some controversy over this statement. If this were settled and a government fully recognized that life begins at conception then it would clearly be forced to pass laws against abortion.

"The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control.
Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;
1% because of fetal abnormalities;
3% due to the mother's health problems."

Abortion Statistics by U.S. State, Race, Age and Worldwide Statistics

This is what I found, however I have a hard time trusting those numbers since it seems to be a Pro-Life website. Can anyone lead me to a good statistical source for these types of things?

Socioeconomic implications? Well I don't even need to look that up. Lower class people who have unwanted children will be more likely to stay in the lower class, as will their child. Even those in the lower class will have to cope with the $225,000 (average) that it takes to raise a child.

The Cost of Raising a Child - NYTimes.com

I don't see what religion has to do with this, other than for specific people deciding whether they want to get an abortion who will be influenced by their religious views. Is that what you meant?

[Arov]

Yes, there is already an abortion thread, but these posts will likely be merged into it so I'll respond here. Welcome to the forums, by the way.

You are pro-choice because, likely, you recognize that a mass of cells does not constitute a baby, and that theoretically your finger is also a mass of cells that could be turned into a human with the use of far-advanced stem cell technology.

It also means that you probably recognize that with the illegalization of abortions comes alongside suppression the lower class by forcing them to bring fetuses to term, thus severely hindering the futures of young men and women in this country. By extension, the likely-poor-quality-of-life that the full term fetus will bring to its parents will result in it having a poor quality of life, which it will probably not escape, even into adulthood.

Furthermore, you are capable of seeing anti-abortion legislation as a ploy by racists and the wealthy alike to preventing class mobility, as it keeps the poor downtrodden. You are aware that the excuse "if we make abortion illegal people will learn not to risk getting pregnant" is a blatant lie, because only a ridiculously stupid person could witness the worldwide market for illicit drugs and deceive themselves into thinking that illegalisation of a good or service will stop demand for or prevent behaviours that lead to the demand for that good or service.

Basically, being pro-choice in at least one circumstance means that you are able to think logically and with reasonable compassion.

I bolded what I agree with, I don't think that anti-abortion legislation is "a ploy by racists and the wealthy alike [for] preventing class mobility." I just don't think that (at least not very many) that is the aim of anti-abortion legislation at all.

[Clementine]

This is not a question of whether abortion is right or wrong. Basically this debate comes down to a woman's rights issue.

Should a woman have control over her body?

The answer is obviously yes. A woman should have complete control over her body. Including her uterus.

[Angry Citizen]

Put simply..

Would you want a woman to bring a baby to term who would kill that baby if she had the chance? No. There should be less suffering in the world. Enough children are born who know they're not wanted.

I like current laws. Strong viability outside the womb = life. No partial birth abortions. But before the third trimester? Kill, baby, kill.

[Arov]

This is not a question of whether abortion is right or wrong. Basically this debate comes down to a woman's rights issue.

Should a woman have control over her body?

The answer is obviously yes. A woman should have complete control over her body. Including her uterus.

You're ignoring where the controversy is with abortion.

Should a woman have control over her body? Yes.

Should a woman have control over her body if there's another life* concerned? Not so simple.

*Also lots of controversy here.

Personally, I think that even if life does begin at conception abortions should still be legal. I think this mainly because I feel that if an abortion is wanted then the baby's environment probably won't be the best. Obviously this can get more nuanced but you typically have to generalize when it comes to these kinds of things.

[Arov]

Put simply..

Would you want a woman to bring a baby to term who would kill that baby if she had the chance? No. There should be less suffering in the world. Enough children are born who know they're not wanted.

I like current laws. Strong viability outside the womb = life. No partial birth abortions. But before the third trimester? Kill, baby, kill.

I agree with you, but I think laws should allow abortions all the way through the third trimester. I don't think this will ever actually happen, and I think the current laws work just fine, but I would still prefer what I think.

"I would still prefer what I think." Damn, that sounds terrible.