Don't be afraid to say Merry Christmas, its your right

[Gorgo]

Stop with the idiotic insults.

Quote by: kharmajunkie Gorgo, you're a liar .

[kharmajunkie]

If you think I'm insulting you then you should report me but I'm not insulting you Gorgo, I'm seriously calling you a liar. What you're implying about what I said is a lie and I'm not going to sit here and let it go by. I don't know what you're problem is but take it out on someone else. My opinion is one of balance. I'm not favoring Christians, Jews, Atheists, Islamists, I'm just saying that if you live in a multicultural society like the US, you need to be tolerant. Too many Dems tolerance seems to mean that if something even makes you think about religious philosophy for a second then your 1st amendment rights have been infringed upon. How about a little 'live and let live'.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: kharmajunkie It's not a civil right issue Gorgo. If some Christians want to put up a manger scene, that isn't infringing on people's rights. The people I refer to as PC idiots are making a mockery of civil rights issues by diluting them with their transparent claims. Rosa Parks had her civil rights violated, not an atheist that has to look at a manger scene for a couple of weeks out of the year or a Christian living in a Jewish neighborhood during Chanukah. If you want to live in this country then you need to adapt to multi-cultural/religious communities at times; or move to a red state. I don't care either way but enough of the utter misrepresentation of the whole "church and state" issue. Modern America needs to learn the difference between a civil rights violation and a seasonal inconvience.

Personally, I have no problem with seeing a manger, or an other holiday celebration for the most part. (One can think of extremes I'm sure.) I just don't want to help pay for it, or any statuary.symbolic stuff from any specific religion. Plus it should be open to all faiths, for the most part, even if it is paid for by others but on public property. I can see how some Christians would get irked by say a UU chalice statue or a Budda or... The same is true of other faiths.

Extremes? Well, how about a statue of an Aztec ripping a heart out of a young girl? That was part of their worship and, who knows who what group of people might decide to revive that one. Things almost as strange have been part of religion.. (Ready to drink Kool-Aid or ride a comet's tail?) Think that's OK? I can go further.

[saif]

Happy Mithra happy mithra to each and all... :)

[kharmajunkie]

Ken, go ahead and mock me with your pathetic referrals to to Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite from a few years back. All I was saying is that if you're not infringing on someone's civil rights you can worship any way you want to. If you guys want to make me out to be some kind of extremist because I think people should be allowed to worship in their own way then go ahead; you're going to lose though because I'm speaking from a position of balance but you feel the need to go straight to the "koolaid card".
As I said, I'm not religious, in fact, I'm bitter towards their kind because I was born and raised in an
extremely fundamentally rigid, Jehovah's Witness home/community so my feelings on this cross section of America is much harsher than your own probably. Still, I'm not going to let my personal
bias against organized religion bring me to a place where I feel the need to piss on others spirituality
because I don't share their views. And frankly, it comes off as very hypocritical when the left gets self
righteous over religious holidays.

[Suburbanite]

I personally hate being wished a happy christmas. I hate Christmas things in general. I dont like red and green either, that shit is ugly.

[Nono]

Quote by: Sub I personally hate being wished a happy christmas.

Just as I dislike being asked how I am (by most people) since I know it's just reflexive and they don't care anyway. It's all blind convention. But what the hell, you can't change the way people are, so no point in getting upset about it. And anyone who would actually seriously object to being wished a merry Xmas must have a screw loose.

This is the dark time of year here in the northern hemisphere, especially for those of us north of 45° latitude. One needs some sort of whoop-up.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Ken Carman Personally, I have no problem with seeing a manger, or an other holiday celebration for the most part. (One can think of extremes I'm sure.) I just don't want to help pay for it, or any statuary.symbolic stuff from any specific religion. Plus it should be open to all faiths, for the most part, even if it is paid for by others but on public property. I can see how some Christians would get irked by say a UU chalice statue or a Budda or... The same is true of other faiths. Extremes? Well, how about a statue of an Aztec ripping a heart out of a young girl? That was part of their worship and, who knows who what group of people might decide to revive that one. Things almost as strange have been part of religion.. (Ready to drink Kool-Aid or ride a comet's tail?) Think that's OK? I can go further.

Maybe you should go live somewhere where you can help finance a public statue of an Aztec ripping a heart out of a young girl, eh? The men who founded this country believed in the christ child, many here talk about going back to the day when the constitution was written, maybe they don't really want to go back "that far" do they? If the left is so intent that they want to incorporate gay marriage into our society I guess they can live with a manger scene.

If you have to get all in a tither over "Merry Christmas" maybe you're no different than the religeous zealots who want to shove relgion down our throats. I never liked Lala and tinky winky and what they stood for either but I didn't have a shit fit about it. You are not the only one who could go on all day about it, Merry Christmas, HoHo Ho.

[Gorgo]

If I had said that you said something, and I knew you didn't, then that would be a lie. I am attempting to make an analogy, not saying you said something that you didn't. I do not report it, because I assume that you are misunderstanding my intentions.

The government is not in the business of promoting religion. If you want religion, go to church, don't use my tax dollars to provide a place for people to expose their hatred of reality. This is a separation of church an state issue. To put a manger scene up on government property is a civil rights issue as well as a church and state issue. It continues the notion that only Christians are citizens, and that the rest of us should support this display of superstition.

Now, please stop with the insults, I apologize if I appeared to be saying that you said something that you didn't.

To get back on topic, again, I think it's nice when people attempt to be nice. "Merry Christmas" is just a meaningless attempt at being nice. Like "Have a nice day." They might as well be saying, "Booga booga booga."

Quote by: kharmajunkie If you think I'm insulting you then you should report me but I'm not insulting you Gorgo, I'm seriously calling you a liar. .

[OberonDOtherseid]

I am not a advocate of religion but to say that religion is a hatred for reality is flat out ridiculous. What I can't understand is why people are so understanding of foreigners who come to this country and how they are very tolerant of their views, religions, and ceremonies but Santa Claus and manger scenes seem to get them in a tithy. But it never surprises me when the critical left supports anything un american but vehemently deposes anything remotely american or what they consider 'right wing american'. Then again, the manger, Santa Claus and the three wise men where never entities created by 'right wing americans', seeing this shining example of how unaware and obviously obtuse the critical left is always makes me smile. And with that I say HO HO HO ...'AWAY IN THE MANGER .....".

[Gorgo]

Santa Claus is a good example of a hatred of reality. Life is so horrible and so terrible, it seems, that one has to create these fantasies and actually lie to children about those fantasies in order to have some enjoyment of life. Treating children like live toys that can be manipulated with lies is abusive.

Making up god(s) in order to make life bearable is another good example of a hatred of reality.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: kharmajunkie Ken, go ahead and mock me with your pathetic referrals to to Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite from a few years back. All I was saying is that if you're not infringing on someone's civil rights you can worship any way you want to. If you guys want to make me out to be some kind of extremist because I think people should be allowed to worship in their own way then go ahead; you're going to lose though because I'm speaking from a position of balance but you feel the need to go straight to the "koolaid card". As I said, I'm not religious, in fact, I'm bitter towards their kind because I was born and raised in an extremely fundamentally rigid, Jehovah's Witness home/community so my feelings on this cross section of America is much harsher than your own probably. Still, I'm not going to let my personal bias against organized religion bring me to a place where I feel the need to piss on others spirituality because I don't share their views. And frankly, it comes off as very hypocritical when the left gets self righteous over religious holidays.

Who the hell was "mocking" you? Geez, delineating actual emotions from a live person is hard enough sometimes, when done honestly. Words typed into some field? Difficult, at best. Actually it sounds like I was kind of agreeing with you, for the most part. ("Sounds" being a rather odd operative word right now since this old Gateway has pooped out on the sound card... again. It comes and goes.) Although it seems from you comments we may have a disagreement about how much is allowed.... or not.

Frankly I find both extremes of the Right and the Left get self-righteous, and selfish, when it comes to the holidays. "Kwannza" (sp) for instance. If some wish to celebrate it, so what? To me almost all should be allowed, I'm just trying to say there are limits to anything and everything... that's why the Aztec heart stuff... etc.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Suburbanite I personally hate being wished a happy christmas. I hate Christmas things in general. I dont like red and green either, that shit is ugly.

I really wish I didn't find some agreement here with you. I am increasingly finding Christmas an empty holiday. Humanity seems to fail over and over at honoring the actual meaning of Christmas. That is understandable because those who wish to do Savior-lite offend the myth crazed and vica versa. But it's more than that. I think I used to view Christmas as a time when family gathered because they actually care, gift giving was an attempt to understand each other and even strangers could bask in the warmth. It has so much potential and is so shallow: at best.

[Suburbanite]

Quote by: Nono Just as I dislike being asked how I am (by most people) since I know it's just reflexive and they don't care anyway. It's all blind convention. But what the hell, you can't change the way people are, so no point in getting upset about it. And anyone who would actually seriously object to being wished a merry Xmas must have a screw loose. This is the dark time of year here in the northern hemisphere, especially for those of us north of 45° latitude. One needs some sort of whoop-up.

It isnt like i scream at people or i actually get pissed. I just get annoyed. It is shameful that people can say something like Merry Christmas in public without being laughed at or hit in the head.

[kharmajunkie]

Gorgo and Ken, I apologize for the misunderstanding then. I'm not used to being in the position of defending organized Religion so again, I apologize if I was a bit self righteous.
We really shouldn't be arguing on the sixth day of Channukah anhway:)

[Mr.Vicchio]

On the subject of "paying for Christmas scenes/trees or the like" I have one word:

Abortion. (its funded by the Federal/State/Local Governments to some extent)

I know atleast 50% of the country doesn't believe in it, but our tax dollars pay for it anyway.

Oh what.. wait thats a "right" you say? Where? Oh some judges made it one through creative writing...

Freedom of religious expression is clearly in the constitution, plain as day. Yet you demand that it not be paid for?

Sorry no can do. Try a different arguement cause thats a dead line issue.

[Gorgo]

Abortion has been addressed by the Supreme Court, as has the separation of church and state.

Abortion has some basis in reality. Religion doesn't. Why are my taxpayer dollars funding superstition?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Religion doesn't.

So what you are saying is, because YOU don't believe in it, no one should..

Okay, so we should just remove most of the 1st amendment, because Gorgo.. doesn't believe in freedom.

thanks for pointing that out.

[Scribbler1]

Christmas is a deeply spiritual time for many, a fraud to many and a bummer to a few. For most though, it is just a pleasant little time of the year, nothing more, nothing less and with all the shit that's been happening lately, I think we can USE that.

Can we overanalyse something else and get the fuck off of Christmas?

[Gorgo]

You can "believe" whatever nonsense you wish to "believe." Just keep it out of my face, and keep it out of my government.

Do you think religion has so little merit that it must be pushed down our throats by government?