Abortion stances

[Catch 22]

um I don't care about abortion, I'm a guy and thus pro choice by default. it's not any of my business what a woman decides to do with her body. Besides have we looked at the policies of these pro life people? 90 percent of the time it's conservative republicans who oppose subsidized school lunches and national health care.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Catch 22 um I don't care about abortion, I'm a guy and thus pro choice by default. it's not any of my business what a woman decides to do with her body. Besides have we looked at the policies of these pro life people? 90 percent of the time it's conservative republicans who oppose subsidized school lunches and national health care.

I find most people's conflicting opinions about abortion, death penalty and how we treat each other riddled with internal conflict. Sometimes I wonder if that's why it's so easy for us to lash out at each other over this issue and related topics.

I

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Catch 22 um I don't care about abortion, I'm a guy and thus pro choice by default. it's not any of my business what a woman decides to do with her body.

Except that it's not her body. It's someone else's body. What a ridiculous euphemism.

Quote by: Catch 22 Besides have we looked at the policies of these pro life people? 90 percent of the time it's conservative republicans who oppose subsidized school lunches and national health care.

What are you trying to imply here? That their position on health care has some connection to their position on abortion?

[Catch 22]

I find most people's conflicting opinions about abortion, death penalty and how we treat each other riddled with internal conflict. Sometimes I wonder if that's why it's so easy for us to lash out at each other over this issue and related topics.

Yeah I’ve always had fun with conservatives who oppose abortion but support the death penalty and a host of other death related polices. Or as george Carlin once said “these are the same people who are in favor of the death penalty, and the death squads in south America, and who support war that will cause more death…..”

However what freaks me out the most is cons being against abortion but against anything that helps the baby afterwards. There’s no support for government subsidized healthcare, government subsidized and elongated maternal leave, rebuilding crumbling inner city schools etc. Yet all of these things all directly pertain to promoting a healthy family and child that’ll reach his or her full potential.

Except that it's not her body. It's someone else's body. What a ridiculous euphemism.

I thank you for the one liner assertion but to me it is her body. It’s attached to her, it doesn’t shrivel u and fall off cause of her and it’s directly affected by what the mother does. Sounds to me like a part of the body.

What are you trying to imply here? That their position on health care has some connection to their position on abortion?

As I said above cons often oppose many government intiaives that would promote te family and help children nationwide. Nonetheless they continue to support pro life stances without pause. To an outside observer like me it looks like these politicians want live babies, (who will be from disproportionately poor families) so they can be dead soldiers (who all come disproportionately from the poor) when they grow up.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Catch 22 I thank you for the one liner assertion but to me it is her body. It’s attached to her, it doesn’t shrivel u and fall off cause of her and it’s directly affected by what the mother does. Sounds to me like a part of the body.

Take a ****ing biology class.

Quote by: Catch 22 As I said above cons often oppose many government intiaives that would promote the family and help children nationwide.

Government handouts "promote the family"??? By "family" you must mean "all-powerful nanny state".

All handouts do is encourage more people to irresponsibly have children. Cut out the welfare, and people will have to take a harder look at their actions.

[faith]

Even if they did ban abortions women would still find away of getting rid of the unwanted pregnancy! what do you think women did before there were abortion clinics?

[Catch 22]

Take a ****ing biology class

I have taken a bio class and it makes sense to me to say it’s part of a woman’s body. You don’t hence why this is such a divisive issue and why it shouldn’t be up to the government to take a stand but merely allow people to decide whether or not they want an abortion.

Government handouts "promote the family"??? By "family" you must mean "all-powerful nanny state". All handouts do is encourage more people to irresponsibly have children. Cut out the welfare, and people will have to take a harder look at their actions.

Handouts don’t encourage people to irresponsibly have more children they help people provide for those children. Unlike the Us European nations have far more comprehensive maternal polices and yet they have close to zero population growth. Where’s the irresponsible child bearing here?

Moreover one has to think whether forcing poor people to leave their kids at home while they work 2-3 minimum wage jobs is good for the upbringing of that child. Or whether forcing expectant mothers without health benefits to rely on infrequent visits to cheap maternity clinics is all the good for the child. I mean you guys are all about protecting the fetus right? Well isn’t national healthcare for all a pretty good way to promote healthy fetuses? Or are you like other cons and want to save the fetus, but don’t really care what happens afterward eh?

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Catch 22 Moreover one has to think whether forcing poor people to leave their kids at home while they work 2-3 minimum wage jobs is good for the upbringing of that child. Or whether forcing expectant mothers without health benefits to rely on infrequent visits to cheap maternity clinics is all the good for the child. I mean you guys are all about protecting the fetus right? Well isn’t national healthcare for all a pretty good way to promote healthy children? Or are you like other cons and want to save the fetus, but don’t really care what happens afterward eh?

I agree that this is a problem. What I don't agree on is that the solution lay in 1) *killing* the child or 2) stealing money from other people to pay for it.

[BloodEagle]

i have said myself that if they stopped welfare a lot of problems would be solved.. sure in the short term it would be hard for many.... but people should certainly have to re-thinkthier ideas of.. i'll let some guy get me preggers so i can get my own house and money.... then i'll dump his ass and screw him for every penny haha.. or ..i am only 14 but i want my own baby!!!!

i think if people suddenly realised life wouldn't be quite so simple they would soon learn. That's not to say there should not be exceptions. couples that split etc should have some rights if reasonable grounds are found.

[BloodEagle]

it isnt abortion that is the problem it is the oft times careless people (men and women) who get themselves in the situation that makes in a requirement.

one way might only be 99% so combine it with another.... make it very very difficult for the situation to arise and abortion would hopefully lesten. I don't know if i have a stand point on abortion itself. I think it is choice but we have to respect that it is a human life that is developing, 2 cells or 2 billion cells.

It will be a hard thing if in the afterlife out little girl or boy comes up to us and says... mommy, why wouldn'y you let me live my life? We could have been happy!

I think it should be granted on merit perhaps? not illegal but there has to be a decent reason, and i cant afford it simply is not one in this day and age, nor is... i am not ready.

Is abortion an form of euthenasia? but in this case ending the suffering of the parents rather than the victim?

[BloodEagle]

"A last word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me, she said 'no'."
Woody Allen.

[Ken Carman]

Various quotes. You folks can sort them out.


Is abortion an form of euthenasia? but in this case ending the suffering of the parents rather than the victim?

Yes, to a certain extent it is. But I'm not totally anti that.


What are you trying to imply here? That their position on health care has some connection to their position on abortion?

I would say that all positions and issues are connected, some more so than others. Those whose position on health care is so strict that the unborn die, then they are being absurd when they start spouting "pro-choice" rhetoric. They just believe in a more cruel, more long term, more class-based method of eliminating the fetus. Of course many would say that's the responsibility of the mother, but then all this "innocent" rhetoric is nonsense.

To an outside observer like me it looks like these politicians want live babies, (who will be from disproportionately poor families) so they can be dead soldiers (who all come disproportionately from the poor) when they grow up.


That's one view. I think it's more basic than that. Those with power always seek more power. It's just another form of greed. It doesn't say much for humanity.

Yeah I’ve always had fun with conservatives who oppose abortion but support the death penalty and a host of other death related polices. Or as george Carlin once said “these are the same people who are in favor of the death penalty, and the death squads in south America, and who support war that will cause more death…..”


I think how we value life is exactly backwards. So many worship the baby and brush aside the old. A more sane society would care for it's young but more than that, respect and treasure the elderly. I think we'd have less old age problems, both mental and physical, if this were the case. Yes, much of this is biological. But there is less when a society has more use for it's elders. Feeling useless, ignored, dismissed, marginalized and shoved aside does nothing good for mental and physical wellness.

Except that it's not her body. It's someone else's body. What a ridiculous euphemism.

Euphemism? No more a euphemism than those in the Pro-Life crowd who ignore the woman but worship the fetus. It depends upon your view of the unborn. If "unborn" and "child" are, to you, synonyms, then you are consistant. They are not the same to me. We are having an argument about where to draw the line.

Take a ****ing biology class.

Ah, finally someone with a more intellectual point of view on the topic!

Government handouts "promote the family"??? By "family" you must mean "all-powerful nanny state".


Often not... especially the latest Bush ones. You can get AIDS from teadrops? Give me a break. Only if they are coming out of your ass, as one pundit said.

All handouts do is encourage more people to irresponsibly have children. Cut out the welfare, and people will have to take a harder look at their actions.

I would be interested in what specific parts cause people to act irresponsibly. Plenty of people got abortions befroe it was legal and before welfare. It was just underground. Besides, acting irresponsibly doesn't automatically transl;ate into getting an abortion if birth control is more accepted and less assaulted by folks like the POpe. They have their right to speak, of course, but when someone fights the availability of birth control and then says the availability of welfare and abortion causes irresponsible behavior, one is speaking out of both sides of the mouth.

Even if they did ban abortions women would still find away of getting rid of the unwanted pregnancy! what do you think women did before there were abortion clinics?



Bingo.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: faith Even if they did ban abortions women would still find away of getting rid of the unwanted pregnancy! what do you think women did before there were abortion clinics?

They died in the back alleyways were murders belong. Frankly, we should be considering how to get other murderers to met similar fates.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: mr.perfecto They died in the back alleyways were murders belong. Frankly, we should be considering how to get other murderers to met similar fates.

Ah. "compassionate conservativism" at it's best! And the compassion continues as made evident by this article. :eek:


P.S- If the Religious Right really was so concerned about the fetus then sentiments like Mr. Perfecto's might be less prevalent. Never guess what else "dies" in back alley abortions. If we really are to consider the fetus the same, or better, than the born then perhaps we can do better than..."They died in the back alleyways where murders (murderers?) belong."

[Dalton]

A 19 year old woman, engaged to her boyfriend of 3 years, finds herself pregnant. He reacts by making himself unavailable, except to occasionally inflict physical abuse (which he had never done before). At 3 months gestation, she takes a hard look at her life choices:
Have the baby. She ferverently searches for a way to make this possible. There is zero family support, no one in her family has ever been on welfare, how would she work and support a child?
Waitressing, a low-level factory job, a dead-end office job? Put the child in day care, at a minimum of $125 a week?

This is an intelligent, curious woman. The Pill gave her migraine headaches, her sisters were taken off the pill because their migraine headaches were caused by blood clots (family history. .) The pregnancy resulted from reliance on the "rhythm method" combined with condoms. Boyfriend wasn't fastidious with his end of the contraception deal.

What the hell would you do?

As long as men can walk away, women will have to have the choice. Her life matters too.

[Sandy]

Abortion is wrong and is always used as the last resort when neither mother nor father want this pregancy. The question should be who has the authority to prohibit abortion?

I personally don't feel it is within the authority of the federal government to even discuss it. When they did, and it was turned over to the Supreme Court, not only was abortion made legal but was paid for out of our taxes. This whole action was wrong!

But repealing R v W would be making all abortions illegal and we are back to square one where many of our girls and women were killed due to illegal and dirty abortions. So how do we handle the problem?

Bring abortions under the Patriot's act as John Ashcroft suggest? His feelings were that abortions were an act of terrorism. Do we put it in the same category as the War on Drugs? Do we enlist pregnant sniffing dogs to follow our women at the airports to keep them from heading to Europe where Abortions are legal? Do we do what Rumania did several years ago and simply bring the government down on all women who had an abortion? The government was looking for more people to populate their cities and they even prohibited birth control including condoms. AIDs killed so many of the adults that their babies ended up in orphanges where many died of AIDs or starvation. How much government do you want?

Are we not better off leaving this subject to the parents? So many of the babies born to unfit parents often end up dead or put in infant hospices to die because they have been brutally beaten after they were born.

Leave this mess alone and let the people of America live by their own choices. If they are religous then abortion is out of the question......or is it? I believe we will find the number of abortions as high or even higher in the bible belt of America than elsewhere.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Dalton A 19 year old woman, engaged to her boyfriend of 3 years, finds herself pregnant. He reacts by making himself unavailable, except to occasionally inflict physical abuse (which he had never done before). At 3 months gestation, she takes a hard look at her life choices: Have the baby. She ferverently searches for a way to make this possible. There is zero family support, no one in her family has ever been on welfare, how would she work and support a child? Waitressing, a low-level factory job, a dead-end office job? Put the child in day care, at a minimum of $125 a week? This is an intelligent, curious woman. The Pill gave her migraine headaches, her sisters were taken off the pill because their migraine headaches were caused by blood clots (family history. .) The pregnancy resulted from reliance on the "rhythm method" combined with condoms. Boyfriend wasn't fastidious with his end of the contraception deal. What the hell would you do? As long as men can walk away, women will have to have the choice. Her life matters too.

This would be one of those cases where I fall right in the middle of the controversy. I feel the choice should be available. However, not to appear too cruel, I feel that except in the most extreme cases public funding shouldn't be an option. I think those of us who are more "Pro-Choice" can do what others do so often. Hold a bake sale. Create an agnecy to help those in "need." BTW, I feel the same about those who want to discourage abortion. Find a way to fund a more compassionate approach to encouraging birth and/or adoption.

If we all focused on helping each other rather than demanding the government do it for us, through law or "give away" programs, we'd all be better off. I sound quite libertarian here and perhaps I am, on this issue. I think asking the public to pay for abortion, except when the life of the mother is at risk or other extreme cases, is too much. I think demanding the government enforce our personal, often theistic, concepts of good, bad, evil is a bit too much. Alas, we all seem more interested in using the law, picking pockets and punishing each other than willingly helping each other. It's self-defeating either way.

[Ken Carman]

His feelings were that abortions were an act of terrorism.

This is the level of absurdity the discussions on terrorism and abortion have reached. I'm sure the other side would equate the state forcing mother's to give birth with state enforced terrorism. In reality the whole concept waters down what mostly Saudi citizens did to us on 9/11 and proves just how little some of these creeps care about protecting us from terrorism. They'd rather use it as a political football.

[faith]

Quote by: mr.perfecto They died in the back alleyways were murders belong. Frankly, we should be considering how to get other murderers to met similar fates.

Actually mothers would give thier daughters abortions in the comfort of thier own homes in private which is what a decision like that should be PRIVATE!

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: faith Actually mothers would give thier daughters abortions in the comfort of thier own homes in private which is what a decision like that should be PRIVATE!

I am no one's doctor or medical expert. But I have the same problem with that that I have with back alley abortions. I feel if abortion is to be safe and legal it should be handled by those who are best able to do it. Should it be private? Yes, but not private to the point of making it any more dangerous of a procedure.