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This topic in Society & Rights is about Why does much of the world hate the U.S.?.

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Old Nov 29, 2004, 11:05 pm   #1 (permalink) (top)
StoneWT
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Why does much of the world hate the U.S.?

The battle of Fallujah

"Throughout the week, most of the soldiers had moments of confession - in the back of a Bradley, lying on the ground just before closing their eyes, taking a break between firefights. Their voices came out of the darkness, tired and usually directed at no one in particular. Some were sweet. The men missed their girlfriends and wives, and they took their pictures out of notebooks to look at them one more time. Some stories were hard. One guy talked about guard duty in Kosovo one day and getting angry about being there, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nothing. He saw a mentally ill child who always came to the gate, asking for candy. The soldier told him to come over, and then he punched him as hard as he could, over and over, just to see if the kid would come back the next day. When he did, the soldier beat him again, laughing."

Why?
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Old Nov 30, 2004, 11:39 am   #2 (permalink) (top)
SVMc
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It's an interesting question that's been asked in too many different ways without very much reflection.

Why does so much of the world hate the US?

Can be used by US patriots to justify a unilateral course of actions, by reformists who admonish US policies, by anarchists to justify tearing down the whole society.

I guess my first question would be what do you mean by the US?

Do you mean the administration? This administration in particular? The US Media? The Corporations? The entire population? US pop-culture? Or just the US Military?

The story you address below suggests you're targeting the military and perhaps the administration. I guess my first question would be, does much of the world hate the US military and it's administraive backers any more or less than much of the rest of the world has hated any imperial power? If so, how has the empire of the US differed from previous empires? If not, why do we see such consistent behaviour across empires? And across military forces? What can we do to change what we see as wrong?
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Old Nov 30, 2004, 12:36 pm   #3 (permalink) (top)
Nono
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There are lots of stories like that from any similar situation. War quickly peels away our thin veneer of civilization. And the nicest kids do the damnedest brutal things.

That said (and leaving aside those who hate it just because it represents The Powerful West a lot of people hate the US because in their eyes it stands for supreme arrogance: its unshakable belief in its own superior way of life and its willingness to shove it down everybody's throat. American exceptionalism means being so superior that you don't have to play by the rules that you expect others to play by. Americans have to step outside and lean way back to appreciate how galling and sometimes murderous that is.

Then there are a lot of people like me who have mixed emotions. We strongly dislike the foregoing but like and admire a lot as well.
However, we're appalled by what we see as a sharp veer toward militarism, contempt for free speech and democracy, a widening gap between rich and poor -- in short, a decidedly illiberal trend in what we used to appreciate as the most liberal of societies.*

With all due care for judicious choice of words, I think what we're beginning to see to a truly alarming degree in the US is fascism: powerful nationalism; identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying factor; supremacy of the military; controlled mass media; obsession with national security; obsession with crime and punishment; firm belief in divine support. What finally convinced me that the F-word is appropriate was listening to right-wing talk radio in the States a couple of months ago. Man, that's shocking.

* Note to those who use "liberal" as a term of abuse. Look it up. Liberalism is what made your country great; its destruction will turn it into a cheap carnival.


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Old Nov 30, 2004, 01:13 pm   #4 (permalink) (top)
Chava
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I think Nono got it right. Along with being way too military based the United States suppresses other countries rights to their freedoms (I should know I live here). Our country seems to think that we can fix every wrong in the world while we ignore more pressing problems in our own country. We say we have freedom of speech but the freedom is limited to what the government has said is tolerable and our freedom of expression is confined to the government's priorities also. People hate the United States even when they're in the United States (such as myself) simply because the government is facist and hypocritical. Another reason I feel people hate the United States is that they have too much power (especially since their only competition the Soviets fell). We're influential enough to be able to shift UN positions and foreign policies and that's a world based union! In a nutshell we're way too powerful for our own good.
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Old Nov 30, 2004, 08:40 pm   #5 (permalink) (top)
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Wow,I really like that story. Not enjoy the act or anything, but what interesting symbolism.
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Old Nov 30, 2004, 09:54 pm   #6 (permalink) (top)
Vee
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simply put the hate of the US is the hate of the US Govt and its supporters at any point in time not the hate of the people themselves.

After all on the international stage, we're characterized by our govts.


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Old Dec 1, 2004, 12:02 am   #7 (permalink) (top)
little zz
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The US thinks that being labeled as the World's Super power is like being a super hero - you know, above all others. (Superman!) It's an arrogance. US thinks that since we are an island we can do whatever and the rest of the world can like it or lump it. "With us or against us." John Wayne and all that. Most Americans don't give a shit what people in the rest of the world think.

A rude awakening lies ahead.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 12:53 am   #8 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1
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That arrogance comes from the fact that we have never been invaded or lost a war on our own soil. The Europeans know these things all to well and it shows in their thinking. I suspect this was a factor in them not supporting us in the invasion of Iraq.

If you are right,and I agree, that most Americans don't care what the rest of the planet thinks of us then that would seem to answer the question of whether they hate US ot our government. It's very likely that we ARE our government. You hate one, you gotta hate them all.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 12:58 am   #9 (permalink) (top)
little zz
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Quote:
Quote by: Scribbler1
It's very likely that we ARE our government. You hate one, you gotta hate them all.
Well put, Scribbler! And not a very comforting thought when you realize that, island or not, we are a part of the global community.

I do understand why most Americans have this attitude. We are lacking in education and media exposure to the rest of the world. We are really quite naive.

But how do we fix us?
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 01:14 am   #10 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1
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We do what we do here. We bitch and whine and complain in the hopes that SOMEONE besides ourselves will listen. It's all we CAN do.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 01:22 am   #11 (permalink) (top)
little zz
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We do what we do here. We bitch and whine and complain in the hopes that SOMEONE besides ourselves will listen. It's all we CAN do.
No, there has to be more.

You know I spend a lot of time on international debate forums, trying to really understand how the international community sees us and the rest of the world. Andy maybe from time to time I can through in my 2 cents to let them know that Americans are not all one thing.


Still, it seems small.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 11:04 am   #12 (permalink) (top)
Nono
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Hey, the world knows you aren't all the same. It saw what happened in the recent election.


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Old Dec 1, 2004, 12:50 pm   #13 (permalink) (top)
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There was a myth coming from the media about big protests awaiting Bush when he got to Canada, but more camera people showed then protestors. There was rumour or conspiracy that he would be tried in Canada as soon as he stepped off the plane...nothing. The media and the critical left are making fools of themselves with the critical mass of conspiracy theories and proclaimations of a revolt from the anti Bush majority (Which so far is a myth in of itself) that never seem to come to fruition.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 01:00 pm   #14 (permalink) (top)
Nono
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There was rumour or conspiracy that he would be tried in Canada as soon as he stepped off the plane...nothing.
Ain't no rumour. A columnist in one of Canada's leading dailies pointed out that under that country's law and treaty commitments, Bush could be arrested and tried once he left office and that indeed the Canadian government was obliged to bring to trial anyone it could who was suspected of serious breaches of the law of war.

There's your "rumour or conspiracy".


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Last edited by Nono; Dec 1, 2004 at 01:29 pm.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 01:02 pm   #15 (permalink) (top)
harmony
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We can also choose to educate ourselves about alternatives, and slowly help others realize the truth. Slowly because people resent being given bad news, and it's more comfortable to believe that "they hate us because we are free". Introduce friends who seem frustrated with the paradox to alternative news sources that are willing to report the world as they see it, no holds barred. When people capable of thinking for themselves begin to see beyond the veil of our controlled mass media, we will hopefully begin to see a change in the future direction of our country.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 01:20 pm   #16 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready
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My quick answer to the topic question, why does the world hate America?

#1 The overwhelming ignorance of Americans toward their governments creation and implementation of both foreign policy, and domestic policy.

#2 The overwhelming ignorance of Americans toward the bias of their media, the bias of their politicians actions vs. their words.

#3 The overwhelming ignorance of Americans toward the role we play in the world economy and the worldview of peace.

#4 Most countries, not tuned in to our propaganda media, can see why the people here are so mis-informed, and when they try to point it out, they are called anti-American zipperheads, and told to mind their own country.

#5 Our government has been instrumental in creating all wars since WWI, and most wars since WWII we have not even called war, merely "police actions" or "spreading democracy".

#6 Our nation meddles in all nations intrests and politics, yet we tolerate none of this from any other nations, with exclusion being to the corrupt United Nations, who we helped usurp the World Court.

#7 Our general populace can't see the forest, for the trees when it comes to the problems in our nation. (the establishment)


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Old Dec 1, 2004, 02:48 pm   #17 (permalink) (top)
SVMc
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Err, not to be too nit-picky but for all of those refering to the US as an Island please tell me you mean that metaphorically speaking, not geographically.
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Old Dec 1, 2004, 03:02 pm   #18 (permalink) (top)
SVMc
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Well we actually managed to see 15,000 protesters (rough estimate from the Globe and Mail) go out to greet Bush, who was reduced to thanking all the Canadians who showed up to wave hello with "five fingers". (There weren't that many).

I've watched a bit of American television, but I don't subscribe to cable services so I don't get it on a regular basis. Last night the local channels all had exerpts from the American media on the Canadian reaction to Bush's visit. There were only three stations (according to CBC) who presented a balanced perspective on the reaction, showing both the large protest and the measures taken by the Canadian government to re-establish more friendly relations with the Bush administration. The other channels reactions just blew me away, I have never actually watched American pundintry - there was even one guy on CNN basically threatening Canada, saying that if we continued to react this way he illuded that the US would somehow punish us.

Now I don't think that, all American's think that way. In fact I've seen many Americans protesting their own administration. However the kind of paternalistic pundintry that was broadcast certainly gave me a shock, and in fact made me wish I had boarded a bus to Ottawa.
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Old Dec 2, 2004, 03:55 am   #19 (permalink) (top)
Nono
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The kind of paternalistic pundintry that was broadcast certainly gave me a shock, and in fact made me wish I had boarded a bus to Ottawa.
These are the same pundits who helped get them all fired up for war in Iraq. The shocking thing is that, in the US, CNN is basically viewed as "liberal". I tell ya.


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Old Dec 7, 2004, 08:31 am   #20 (permalink) (top)
Lava
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Little zz:
> We are lacking in education and media exposure to the rest of the world. We are really quite naive.

When it comes to foreign affairs, many 'mericans seem remarkably naive about this aspect of life, and unfortunately assume their naive ideas should be forced onto everyone else.

I dont want to get american bashing here: there are serious problems with the US, but there are with every country, we need to keep that in perspective.

The prime problem I notice with the US is that the majority of mericans seem to treat others like filth, with no visible morality at all. This applies to the way they treat each other as much as anything.

America is a big military and economic force, and a friend really, but it seems to be a friend thats immature and prone to bully tactics.


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