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Iluvatar · Nov 29, 2004, 03:40 pm

So, what do you think? Flag burning has been called freedom of expression, and it's been called disrespectful hate-filled idiocy. Should it be outlawed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag-burning_amendment

Gorgo · Nov 29, 2004, 04:03 pm

I think it is free speech. It may also be called disrespectful hate-filled idiocy, but that also is free speech. The only time I'll probably ever burn a U.S. flag is if they outlaw the burning of U.S. flags.

bishop · Nov 29, 2004, 04:24 pm

it's free speech.. might be disrepectful to some, but it's free speech nonetheless.

Scribbler1 · Nov 29, 2004, 05:58 pm

It IS disrespectful, but it is also free speech. What interests me is when some armchair patriot starts demanding a flag burner be jailed for his actions. I wonder if the "this is the greatest country in the world" bunch realize the flag STANDS FOR the very freedom that allows it to be burned. They apparently don't really mean this is the greatest country because they must like the Chinese form of government better. Desecrating the flag is illegal there.

rcne · Nov 29, 2004, 06:35 pm

I agree it is an expression of free speech - however if you burn one in front of me, or a majority of this country, you may feel the pain of free expression verses free speech..

I can't help myself, I'm a veteran and I will cause you to cease and desist. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

Starboy · Nov 29, 2004, 06:46 pm

People need to learn the difference between a flag and a country.

Starboy

Scribbler1 · Nov 29, 2004, 09:31 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rcne

I agree it is an expression of free speech - however if you burn one in front of me, or a majority of this country, you may feel the pain of free expression verses free speech..

I can't help myself, I'm a veteran and I will cause you to cease and desist. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

I've always felt that way myself. Even as kids we were taught to respect and revere the flag. But when my emotions say "punch the bastard in the face" as he burns a flag, reality sets in and my intellect says he has that right to and that settles it.

As much as I respect the flag I can not allow it to be held in higher regard than the people it represents.

bishop · Nov 29, 2004, 10:52 pm

as my opinion of the government has changed from year to year, i've always had the same belief that flag burning was free speech. also, i'm not a big believer in symbolism, so when i see people burn it, i'm not moved one way or another - just as i'm not impressed when i see someone sticking a hundred flags onto their suv.

Scribbler1 · Nov 30, 2004, 01:23 am

Especially when said flags turn into torn, washed out rags and are still left on the antenna of the SUV or whatever.
It's amazing how much people say they love the flag but how little respect they have for it.

(edit) Flag Etiquette

.

Osborn F Enready · Nov 30, 2004, 10:32 am

I agree that it is a form of freedom of speech and expression.

Scribbler said: Especially when said flags turn into torn, washed out rags and are still left on the antenna of the SUV or whatever.
It's amazing how much people say they love the flag but how little respect they have for it.

I say: I couldn't agree more.

**Pooeypants** · Nov 30, 2004, 11:40 am

Burning a piece of coloured cloth won't affect me much, except if the smoke and ash went into my face...

Suburbanite · Nov 30, 2004, 12:19 pm

Isn't burning the flag a fire hazzard?

Anyways, I don't mind when Americans burn flags, but it drives me nuts to see third world countries spend their yearly wages on a flag to burn instead of food.

Milton Bradley · Nov 30, 2004, 02:15 pm

I had to vote free expression.

Let me put into a context the extreme right can understand.

If enough people burn flags, it can be good for the economy. That should be reason enough right there.

m5lange1 · Nov 30, 2004, 05:17 pm

To me seeing teh flag burnt is one of those prices we pay for living in a fee country.
Its like all those people who make their living on the division of our nation. Like Ann Coulter or Michael Moore.
It is legal, it is their right, it is a damned disgrace. They should all be ahamed of themselves.

Lou Minotti · Nov 30, 2004, 06:06 pm

Where are the comments of the 4 people opposing flag burning? I think burning flags is a waste of time but hey, freedom mean the freedom to be a dumbass if you want.

little zz · Dec 1, 2004, 12:04 am

It IS disrespectful, but should not be made illegal. Let's keep it a free country. I like it that way.

The Black Flag · Dec 1, 2004, 12:55 am

I agree with starboy...its only a flag. It's a piece of cloth, nothing more, nothing less. Besides, I heard (not sure where) that a majority of american flags are made in a foriegn country (forget the name of that said country). NOt sure if it's true or not...but it's still just cloth with dye on it. I'm an anarchist, but I couldn't give a fuck if I saw someone burning a black flag, if I have no lighter, I'd probably light my ciggerette off of it, just for comic effect and my own little laugh.

little zz · Dec 1, 2004, 01:05 am

Quote:

Quote by: The Black Flag

its only a flag. It's a piece of cloth, nothing more, nothing less.

Well, a lot of people like to believe in something. And from where I come from (that would be the 70's) My Country was good thing to believe in. It's hard to give that up. So, if I saw someone burning a flag, it would evoke some emotion in me.

I personally wouldn't burn a flag, but I wouldn't stop others, either.

Illegal? Hopefully never! That is, after all, the whole point of what that flag stands for - Freedom.

Gorgo · Dec 1, 2004, 07:12 am

It's not any more irrational to burn a flag than to be upset about the flag burning. It is a piece of cloth. In fact, it's a military standard that signifies conquest and greed.

inmoti · Dec 1, 2004, 07:30 am

There actually was a flag burning in front of my dorms just a couple weeks ago.

We asked them why they were burning it. Their answer was;

We're burning the American Flag because Bush is sending our boys and men to go die
for our country when he could just stop the war and killing, etc.

Yes, I understand it's a form of freedom of speech and expression.

But when they're burning because of President Bush, isn't it disrespectful to those who are fighting for our country? They're fighting for our country (which is represented by our flag, also), and all they get is a burnt flag. We should support the troops, no?

View Poll Results: How do you view flag burning
It is a form of free expression, and should remain legal.	23	71.88%
It is disrespectful to this great nation, and should be made illegal.	5	15.63%
I believe otherwise, and will elaborate.	4	12.50%
Voters: 32. You may not vote

Nov 29, 2004, 03:40 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Iluvatar Sedimentary Rock Location: In front of a computer Posts: 18	Flag Burning So, what do you think? Flag burning has been called freedom of expression, and it's been called disrespectful hate-filled idiocy. Should it be outlawed? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag-burning_amendment [center]-=Iluvatar=- The truest sign of wisdom is the ability to seek it in your opponent.[/center]

Nov 29, 2004, 06:35 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	I agree it is an expression of free speech - however if you burn one in front of me, or a majority of this country, you may feel the pain of free expression verses free speech.. I can't help myself, I'm a veteran and I will cause you to cease and desist. Sorry if it hurt your feelings. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Nov 29, 2004, 06:46 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	It's only a flag. People need to learn the difference between a flag and a country. Starboy

Nov 30, 2004, 01:23 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Especially when said flags turn into torn, washed out rags and are still left on the antenna of the SUV or whatever. It's amazing how much people say they love the flag but how little respect they have for it. (edit) Flag Etiquette . Last edited by Scribbler1; Nov 30, 2004 at 01:37 am.

Nov 29, 2004, 04:03 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	I think it is free speech. It may also be called disrespectful hate-filled idiocy, but that also is free speech. The only time I'll probably ever burn a U.S. flag is if they outlaw the burning of U.S. flags.

Nov 29, 2004, 04:24 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	it's free speech.. might be disrepectful to some, but it's free speech nonetheless.

Nov 29, 2004, 05:58 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	It IS disrespectful, but it is also free speech. What interests me is when some armchair patriot starts demanding a flag burner be jailed for his actions. I wonder if the "this is the greatest country in the world" bunch realize the flag STANDS FOR the very freedom that allows it to be burned. They apparently don't really mean this is the greatest country because they must like the Chinese form of government better. Desecrating the flag is illegal there.

Nov 29, 2004, 10:52 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	as my opinion of the government has changed from year to year, i've always had the same belief that flag burning was free speech. also, i'm not a big believer in symbolism, so when i see people burn it, i'm not moved one way or another - just as i'm not impressed when i see someone sticking a hundred flags onto their suv.

Nov 30, 2004, 10:32 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	I agree that it is a form of freedom of speech and expression. Scribbler said: Especially when said flags turn into torn, washed out rags and are still left on the antenna of the SUV or whatever. It's amazing how much people say they love the flag but how little respect they have for it. I say: I couldn't agree more. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Nov 30, 2004, 11:40 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,602	Burning a piece of coloured cloth won't affect me much, except if the smoke and ash went into my face... War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Nov 30, 2004, 12:19 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Isn't burning the flag a fire hazzard? Anyways, I don't mind when Americans burn flags, but it drives me nuts to see third world countries spend their yearly wages on a flag to burn instead of food.

Nov 30, 2004, 02:15 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	I had to vote free expression. Let me put into a context the extreme right can understand. If enough people burn flags, it can be good for the economy. That should be reason enough right there.

Nov 30, 2004, 05:17 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
m5lange1 Igneous Magma Posts: 649	To me seeing teh flag burnt is one of those prices we pay for living in a fee country. Its like all those people who make their living on the division of our nation. Like Ann Coulter or Michael Moore. It is legal, it is their right, it is a damned disgrace. They should all be ahamed of themselves. Protester against the culture war!!!!

Nov 30, 2004, 06:06 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Lou Minotti BANNED (Multiple usernames after another ban) Posts: 1,337	Where are the comments of the 4 people opposing flag burning? I think burning flags is a waste of time but hey, freedom mean the freedom to be a dumbass if you want.

Dec 1, 2004, 12:04 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
little zz NOT a junior member Location: Stumptown, Oregon Posts: 50	It IS disrespectful, but should not be made illegal. Let's keep it a free country. I like it that way.

Dec 1, 2004, 12:55 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
The Black Flag Molten Ash Location: thomaston, GA Posts: 132	I agree with starboy...its only a flag. It's a piece of cloth, nothing more, nothing less. Besides, I heard (not sure where) that a majority of american flags are made in a foriegn country (forget the name of that said country). NOt sure if it's true or not...but it's still just cloth with dye on it. I'm an anarchist, but I couldn't give a fuck if I saw someone burning a black flag, if I have no lighter, I'd probably light my ciggerette off of it, just for comic effect and my own little laugh. Whenever citizens are seen routinely as enemies of their own government, writers are routinely seen to be the most dangerous enemies. --E.L. Doctorow

Dec 1, 2004, 07:12 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	It's not any more irrational to burn a flag than to be upset about the flag burning. It is a piece of cloth. In fact, it's a military standard that signifies conquest and greed.

Dec 1, 2004, 07:30 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
inmoti Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	There actually was a flag burning in front of my dorms just a couple weeks ago. We asked them why they were burning it. Their answer was; We're burning the American Flag because Bush is sending our boys and men to go die for our country when he could just stop the war and killing, etc. Yes, I understand it's a form of freedom of speech and expression. But when they're burning because of President Bush, isn't it disrespectful to those who are fighting for our country? They're fighting for our country (which is represented by our flag, also), and all they get is a burnt flag. We should support the troops, no?