Homosexual Marriage

[ItsADirtyRag]

Quote by: Rog So you have no clue how things work, but you like to disagree with me without any base. Why are you even debating? let me guess; you are the expert of your theories.

Makes me glad not to be from Orlando....only kidding

Really, if there is any isue that is crazy to argue over, it is one relating to the extension of civil rights to a group of people. Does the denial of marriage to gays keep them from being together?

[Matt W]

Quote by: Rog So you have no clue how things work, but you like to disagree with me without any base. Why are you even debating? let me guess; you are the expert of your theories.

Do you have any clue how things work elsewhere? Was this thread about Homosexual Marriage just in the USA? I think not.

[Rog]

@ Matt W
@ Italiangm
Yes we were talking about US, the last few pages is about US.
So no I am not treating him bad, he was the first one to start calling names.
obviously all of you do not take this gay marriage thing seriously enough to fight for it, you only like to sit in front of you computers and bitch about it in some online forum.

[Rog]

Quote by: ItsADirtyRag Makes me glad not to be from Orlando....only kidding Really, if there is any isue that is crazy to argue over, it is one relating to the extension of civil rights to a group of people. Does the denial of marriage to gays keep them from being together?

We are all very gay friendly in Orlando.
Yes it is a debate to extend civil rights to a group of people.
But these people instead of fighting for it, they attack the opposition's beliefs making the opposition more oppose to their requests.
Gays like to be compared to blacks when they went thru their civil rights movement, but gays don't like to step up like the blacks did, you have no leader.
Good luck...

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog @ Matt W @ Italiangm Yes we were talking about US, the last few pages is about US.

If you had been paying attention, he made a comparison about how difficult it would be to pass a similar law in his country.

Quote by: Rog obviously all of you do not take this gay marriage thing seriously enough to fight for it, you only like to sit in front of you computers and bitch about it in some online forum.

Obviously, you don't know us well enough to make such an pompous assertion.

In my case, I've been fighting for equal rights for gay people like myself for over 34 years. As a Texas resident, I made substantial donations to the organizations that provided the lawyers that worked on the Lawrence v. Texas case in 2003 which rendered all same-sex sodomy laws unenforceable in the US. That decision overturned the Bowers v. Hardwick decision made in 1986.

I suggest you keep your unsubstantiated judgments about people you don't have a clue about to yourself. Why? Because that foot in your mouth doesn't look attractive at all.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm If you had been paying attention, he made a comparison about how difficult it would be to pass a similar law in his country. Obviously, you don't know us well enough to make such an pompous assertion. In my case, I've been fighting for equal rights for gay people like myself for over 34 years. As a Texas resident, I made substantial donations to the organizations that provided the lawyers that worked on the Lawrence v. Texas case in 2003 which rendered all same-sex sodomy laws unenforceable in the US. That decision overturned the Bowers v. Hardwick decision made in 1986. I suggest you keep your unsubstantiated judgments about people you don't have a clue about to yourself. Why? Because that foot in your mouth doesn't look attractive at all.

ok, who is your MLK?

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog ok, who is your MLK?

Blacks have had many leaders during the civil rights movement, just as gays do -- each adding their own strategies and points of view. People who believe in those ideas gravitate toward, and support, those leaders.

You must not know much about American history if you think the civil rights movement was in any form or fashion monolithic under MLK.

I suggest you crack open some books and get an education.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Rog So you have no clue how things work, but you like to disagree with me without any base. Why are you even debating? let me guess; you are the expert of your theories.

Yes and no, you have to understand that very few 13 year olds have completed thorough research into anything, it may shock you to hear that my ideas aren't 100% certified through scientific testing. I do however have the support and guidance of a second year psychologist at Brisbane university. I have done my research into this topic, in all other matters then the US electoral system, for that I apologise, I am at fault there.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Rog @ Matt W @ Italiangm Yes we were talking about US, the last few pages is about US. So no I am not treating him bad, he was the first one to start calling names. obviously all of you do not take this gay marriage thing seriously enough to fight for it, you only like to sit in front of you computers and bitch about it in some online forum.

I intend to fight for this with everything I have, but once again, I apologise for my youthfulness.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog Well, the politician got elected by those religious people, why don't gays get a politician elected to change these laws?

Dunno what you mean.

There are openly gay members in the US Congress, State Legislatures, and officials holding various State and City offices.

There are also gay-friendly officials across the spectrum.

However, it's ridiculous to believe any individual official can change laws without the help of their colleagues and the votes of their constituents.

[ItsADirtyRag]

Quote by: Rog We are all very gay friendly in Orlando. Yes it is a debate to extend civil rights to a group of people. But these people instead of fighting for it, they attack the opposition's beliefs making the opposition more oppose to their requests. Gays like to be compared to blacks when they went thru their civil rights movement, but gays don't like to step up like the blacks did, you have no leader. Good luck...

I Would love some proof to back up your claim that people are not at work fighting for gay rights.

The gays haven't put a leader forward like the Blacks because they learned a lesson from the 60's movement: when a leader challenging popular opinion gets too strong, they get killed.

[Halofan48]

There are thousands of people fighting for gay rights, Rog, here, i'll go find some names of prominent people in the movement,

[Rog]

Quote by: Halofan48 There are thousands of people fighting for gay rights, Rog, here, i'll go find some names of prominent people in the movement,

See, they are not really well known.

[Rog]

Quote by: yourmaster I intend to fight for this with everything I have, but once again, I apologise for my youthfulness.

Sorry I did not know you were so young, I apologize for insulting you.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm Dunno what you mean. There are openly gay members in the US Congress, State Legislatures, and officials holding various State and City offices. There are also gay-friendly officials across the spectrum. However, it's ridiculous to believe any individual official can change laws without the help of their colleagues and the votes of their constituents.

I am not obviously saying 1 will make a change, it will take a few, but even the elected ones, do try hard enough, is not their priority.
Civil rights for gays only comes up during election time, after we have a winner you never hear it again.

[Rog]

Quote by: ItsADirtyRag I Would love some proof to back up your claim that people are not at work fighting for gay rights.

Some may be, but they are attacking the opposition; the Christian groups.

The gays haven't put a leader forward like the Blacks because they learned a lesson from the 60's movement: when a leader challenging popular opinion gets too strong, they get killed.

What lesson? one guy die, and they got what they wanted.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog What lesson? one guy die, and they got what they wanted.

Ever heard of Harvey Milk?

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog See, they are not really well known.

What do you consider "well known"?

MLK was not a politician, he was a member of the clergy. There are famous people across the spectrum that also work for equal rights...

Melissa Etheridge, Elton John, Martina Navratilova, Greg Louganis, Billie Jean King, Roberta Achtenburg, Barney Frank, Gerry Studds, Candace Gingrich, Margarethe Cammermeyer, Chad Allen, Ted Allen, Gregg Araki, James Baldwin, Tammy Baldwin, Lance Bass, Robert Bauman, Chastity Bono, John Boswell, Keith Boykin, Tim Carpenter, Margaret Cho, Kate Clinton, Wilson Cruz, Ellen DeGeneres, Martin Duberman, Andrea Dworkin, Ruth Ellis, Harvey Fierstein, Robert Gant, Tim Gill, Allen Ginsberg, Barbara Gittings, Neil Patrick Harris, Andrew Holleran, Steve Kmetko, T.R. Knight, Bob Kohler, Larry Kramer, Sheila Kuehl, Tony Kushner, Audre Lorde, Harvey Milk, John Cameron Mitchell, Jim Moeller, Daniel O'Donnell, Rosie O'Donnell, Troy Perry, Anthony Rapp, Christopher Rice, Marlon Riggs, Danny Roberts, Gene Robinson, Jai Rodriguez, Bayard Rustin, Dan Savage, Randy Shilts, Michelangelo Signorile, Andrew Sullivan, Andrew Tobias, Lily Tomlin, Gus Van Sant, Edmund White, Mel White, B.D. Wong...

Surely you must recognize at least SOME of these names.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm What do you consider "well known"? MLK was not a politician, he was a member of the clergy. There are famous people across the spectrum that also work for equal rights... Melissa Etheridge, Elton John, Martina Navratilova, Greg Louganis, Billie Jean King, Roberta Achtenburg, Barney Frank, Gerry Studds, Candace Gingrich, Margarethe Cammermeyer, Chad Allen, Ted Allen, Gregg Araki, James Baldwin, Tammy Baldwin, Lance Bass, Robert Bauman, Chastity Bono, John Boswell, Keith Boykin, Tim Carpenter, Margaret Cho, Kate Clinton, Wilson Cruz, Ellen DeGeneres, Martin Duberman, Andrea Dworkin, Ruth Ellis, Harvey Fierstein, Robert Gant, Tim Gill, Allen Ginsberg, Barbara Gittings, Neil Patrick Harris, Andrew Holleran, Steve Kmetko, T.R. Knight, Bob Kohler, Larry Kramer, Sheila Kuehl, Tony Kushner, Audre Lorde, Harvey Milk, John Cameron Mitchell, Jim Moeller, Daniel O'Donnell, Rosie O'Donnell, Troy Perry, Anthony Rapp, Christopher Rice, Marlon Riggs, Danny Roberts, Gene Robinson, Jai Rodriguez, Bayard Rustin, Dan Savage, Randy Shilts, Michelangelo Signorile, Andrew Sullivan, Andrew Tobias, Lily Tomlin, Gus Van Sant, Edmund White, Mel White, B.D. Wong... Surely you must recognize at least SOME of these names.

Ok, you are trying really hard not to understand me.
Yes i know a few of these people, but you do not see them everyday fighting for gay rights.
the last I head of any of these actually saying something about gays was when Ellen had senator McCain over her show.
Last thing Lance B did that was on the news:
"gay ex backstreet boy can't afford to go to the moon"
That is not fighting for equal rights.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog Ok, you are trying really hard not to understand me.

The same could be said about you.

Quote by: Rog Yes i know a few of these people, but you do not see them everyday fighting for gay rights.

Oh really? Perhaps the ones you DON'T know are LGBT activists (yes, they're in the list), fighting with the same passion and frequency as MLK. Heck, I didn't even include executives from most of the national gay organizations in that list. Those folks are on the front lines all the time.

While were on the subject, you should at least be aware of Bayard Rustin. He was an openly gay black man who counseled MLK on non-violent resistance techniques. Rustin turned his experience toward gay issues later in his life. A quote from Rustin a year before his death in 1987: "The barometer of where one is on human rights questions is no longer the black community, it's the gay community. Because it is the community which is most easily mistreated."

Now to your strawman argument: The average person in America did not see MLK every day, so your comparison to gay people in this regard is faulty and useless since well-known gay people can be seen every day in the various media.

Quote by: Rog the last I head of any of these actually saying something about gays was when Ellen had senator McCain over her show.

On the other hand, people can see Ellen DeGeneres five days a week on TV with full knowledge she is a lesbian. That's got the same impact to young gay people as young black people seeing a black person on TV five days a week back in the 70s.

Quote by: Rog Last thing Lance B did that was on the news: "gay ex backstreet boy can't afford to go to the moon" That is not fighting for equal rights.

On the other hand, he makes his presence known in the gay world by doing fundraising work for LGBT organizations.

Please stop making useless comparisons and get back on topic.