Homosexual Marriage

[SoylentGreen]

[quote=Rog;517030]Let me explain in a different way.

The study suggests homo males have smaller brain then hetero males, and homo females have bigger brain then hetero females.

Wow!! This is quite a statement. Either you lack comprehension skills or you are deliberately insulting women.
The study suggests nothing of the sort.

Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men. it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain. In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.

So what your suggesting is that because gay men have same size brain as hetro woman (Which the study shows) and then you wrongly imply that homo males have smaller brain then hetero males,
So in other words hetro women also have smaller brains than hetro men.
And to continue this train of thought , therefore women are mentally inferior to men.
Bold stance there rog.

So there is something wrong with one of the genes, just lke Down sysdrome where chromosome 21 is duplicated incorrectly.

No, wrong implies a moral judgement. That is your own moral judgement

So why do you think scientist would not try to indetify whick gene is falty and try to fix it? in the near future this could be a choice the parents make and more likelly the extinction of homosexuals.

Only if your faulty logic and personal morality is applied to the study.
Otherwise it does indicate that theists are incorrect once again to assume that homosexuality is only a life style choice.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm Folks, can we agree to bring this faulty gene canard up in another thread? It doesn't belong here, and responding to it only prolongs the off topic responses. Unless someone can explain how any of this actually relates to gay marriage, it doesn't belong in this thread.

You are right, back to the topic. It looks like there is some victory in California.
General News - Gay couples rush to get married in California
Why do you want to get married anyways?

[Rog]

[quote=SoylentGreen;517041]

Quote by: Rog So in other words hetro women also have smaller brains than hetro men. And to continue this train of thought , therefore women are mentally inferior to men. Bold stance there rog. .

Lol! that is your train of thought, not mine. I could also point out that your lack of understanding proves my point...

[SoylentGreen]

[quote=Rog;517043]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Lol! that is your train of thought, not mine. I could also point out that your lack of understanding proves my point...

You can try and dismiss what you said with a joke rog but it doesn't change what you said.

The study suggests homo males have smaller brain then hetero males

The study says nothing of the sort and your logic if followed through leads to where i pointed to.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog You are right, back to the topic. It looks like there is some victory in California. General News - Gay couples rush to get married in California Why do you want to get married anyways?

One reason is because my partner and I are goddamned tired of paying $13,500 a year* more in taxes, insurance premiums, etc than a hetero married couple with no kids where the only difference is the couple's gender.

There are other reasons related to legal issues as well.

* $13,500 is the 2007 value. As these costs have risen over the 13 years my partner and I have been together, the accumulated total is now almost $81,000!

[Rog]

[quote=SoylentGreen;517046]

Quote by: Rog You can try and dismiss what you said with a joke rog but it doesn't change what you said. The study says nothing of the sort and your logic if followed through leads to where i pointed to.

Read the link over, and draw yourself a picture. create another thread if you like, but I am not replying about this anymore in here.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Rog I notice you understand what I am saying better now. But again skin color, eye color, hair color is a hereditary, homosexualism is not. Do you really think scientinst don't play with genomes now? cloning is old news. I am very sure parent in the future will be able to choose certain things they would like thier kids to have and not to have. If you had children wouldn't you want them to have perfect genes?

First of all, it's homosexuality. Second, You keep calling it a gene. If it is a gene, it's heritable. So, is it a heritable gene? Or not a gene at all? Third, messing with the genome can very dangerous. Not to mention if parents choose which genes they want, it could cause a loss of biodiversity amongst our species, yet that is for a separate thread so i'll stop there. Fourth, What defines a gene as "perfect"? As you see it's a matter of opinion. You see, when i have kids, I don't care what they look like, what their orientation is, etc. I really don't. People who do are just sad if they really invest so much in appearance and sexual preference.

[Rog]

[quote=SoylentGreen;517046]

Quote by: Rog You can try and dismiss what you said with a joke rog but it doesn't change what you said. The study says nothing of the sort and your logic if followed through leads to where i pointed to.

here. Simon LeVay’s Home Page

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm One reason is because my partner and I are goddamned tired of paying $13,500 a year* more in taxes, insurance premiums, etc than a hetero married couple with no kids where the only difference is the couple's gender. There are other reasons related to legal issues as well. * $13,500 is the 2007 value. As these costs have risen over the 13 years my partner and I have been together, the accumulated total is now almost $81,000!

Wow, that is crazy! I was trying to find the difference in benefits of marriage against civil unions, do you have a link?

[Rog]

Quote by: Halofan48 First of all, it's homosexuality.

Sorry about misspelling, I am not too good at it. Please see disclaimer below.

Second, You keep calling it a gene. If it is a gene, it's heritable. So, is it a heritable gene? Or not a gene at all? Third, messing with the genome can very dangerous. Not to mention if parents choose which genes they want, it could cause a loss of biodiversity amongst our species, yet that is for a separate thread so i'll stop there. Fourth, What defines a gene as "perfect"? As you see it's a matter of opinion. You see, when i have kids, I don't care what they look like, what their orientation is, etc. I really don't. People who do are just sad if they really invest so much in appearance and sexual preference.

Yes it is dangerous, but it does not mean it does not happen. Perfect genes, perfect DNA, perfect chromosomes, perfect person. I know parents that have children with learning desabilities, and they love their kids no doubt about it, but I am sure if they had a choice to avoid this from happening they would go for it. Choosing that your kid does not have down syndrome does not stop you kid when adult to have a mix race relations, so you theory of biodiversity is no good.

[ShadowFox]

Quote by: Rog Sorry about misspelling, I am not too good at it. Please see disclaimer below. Yes it is dangerous, but it does not mean it does not happen. Perfect genes, perfect DNA, perfect chromosomes, perfect person. I know parents that have children with learning desabilities, and they love their kids no doubt about it, but I am sure if they had a choice to avoid this from happening they would go for it. Choosing that your kid does not have down syndrome does not stop you kid when adult to have a mix race relations, so you theory of biodiversity is no good.

Well, Rog, if you understood what i meant, you'd realize there could be problems with biodiversity. Lets say that people consider brown eyes, black hair, and long legs the "Perfect genome" If enough people change their childs' genotype to this, it could cause there to be less variation. Understand?

Also, tell me how homosexuality is equivalent to Down Syndrome? Hm? It's not dangerous, it does not impair the organism, so how is it a problem?

Also, you never answered my question about if you consider homosexuality to be controlled by genes or not.

[Rog]

Quote by: Halofan48 Well, Rog, if you understood what i meant, you'd realize there could be problems with biodiversity. Lets say that people consider brown eyes, black hair, and long legs the "Perfect genome" If enough people change their childs' genotype to this, it could cause there to be less variation. Understand?

I know what you mean, but I dont think moral arguments will stop this from happening since most people that would argue against this would be religious ones, and their opinion does not hold much value in the scientist world.

Also, tell me how homosexuality is equivalent to Down Syndrome? Hm? It's not dangerous, it does not impair the organism, so how is it a problem?

I did not say it is the same, i used it as an exemple.

Also, you never answered my question about if you consider homosexuality to be controlled by genes or not.

I dont know for sure.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog Wow, that is crazy! I was trying to find the difference in benefits of marriage against civil unions, do you have a link?

There is a subset of benefits and responsibilities that are essentially identical in all states, regardless if a couple are joined by marriage or civil union.

There are also differences between marriages and civil unions within a state, between the different states, and with the federal government.

One issue I'm aware of is that a hetero couple's health insurance premiums are frequently deducted from income before tax is calculated on an employee's paycheck.

However, in states that allow same-sex marriages or civil unions, the portion of the premium allocated to the non-employee spouse is oftentimes not deductible from state taxes. Furthermore, before-tax deductions are absolutely not allowed for federal tax purposes in all states since the feds do not recognize same sex marriages or civil unions.

If the employer chooses to pay the non-employee spouse's premium, it is considered a benefit to the employee and is taxed as income.

Sorry, but I am unaware of a single link that offers the comparison you seek.

I can tell you my figures cite the difference between taxes, insurance premiums, expense for legal documents, etc, for the state of Texas. And Texas doesn't even have a state income tax!

[??!]

Quote by: Halofan48 People who do are just sad if they really invest so much in appearance and sexual preference.

Yea. It is sad..

[SoylentGreen]

ROGRead the link over, and draw yourself a picture. create another thread if you like, but I am not replying about this anymore in here.

Hardly a surprising attitude from you. I prove you wrong and you run away.
And then you give another example of contradicting yourself by coming back in the same thread and continuing what you said you wouldn't.
So as you seem to wish to continue showing us how wrong you are lets take a look at this link you gave

My Wikipedia biography

Hubbard and Wald note, "Though, on average, the size of the hypothalamic nucleus LeVay considered significant was indeed smaller in the men he identified as homosexual, his published data show that the range of sizes of the individual samples was virtually the same as for the heterosexual men. That is, the area was larger in some of the homosexuals than in many of the heterosexual men, and smaller in some of the heterosexual men than in many of the homosexuals. This means that, though the groups showed some difference as groups, there was no way to tell anything about an individual’s sexual orientation by looking at his hypothalamus."

Gay male brains cannot be identical to female brains, otherwise gay men would identify as women. Nevertheless, many biological and cognitive psychological studies suggest that gay people possess a patchwork of traits, some more typical for their anatomical sex and some more typical of the other sex. This topic is reviewed in the article on the biology of sexual orientation on my website.

Dear oh dear! It would seem the link you gave me not only proves you wrong , but points out that it is only considering certain areas of the brain.
It would seem that your original statement

The study suggests homo males have smaller brain then hetero males, and homo females have bigger brain then hetero females.

Is not only completely wrong but also shows your complete lack of comprehension skills.

[Rog]

Quote by: SoylentGreen Hardly a surprising attitude from you. I prove you wrong and you run away. And then you give another example of contradicting yourself by coming back in the same thread and continuing what you said you wouldn't. So as you seem to wish to continue showing us how wrong you are lets take a look at this link you gave My Wikipedia biography Dear oh dear! It would seem the link you gave me not only proves you wrong , but points out that it is only considering certain areas of the brain. It would seem that your original statement Is not only completely wrong but also shows your complete lack of comprehension skills.

Quote from the link you posted "Volume and cell count measure different things. My article was about the size of INAH3, so volume was the appropriate measure."
i know this affects you, but this is a debate so dont take it personal, Is not like I am bitting with a stick or calling you names...

[Matt W]

Err, Rog, don't make assumptions. Several of the people you are debating aren't homosexual. Just because we're heteros doesn't mean we don't support gay marriage.

[Rog]

Quote by: Matt W Err, Rog, don't make assumptions. Several of the people you are debating aren't homosexual. Just because we're heteros doesn't mean we don't support gay marriage.

Sorry Matt but did I called him homosexual?

[banko]

Back to the actual topic.
Here in Canada we have allowed it for around 2 years and you know what? Not much has changed in my sheltered hetero life. It was huge news for the months leading up to the decision to allow it and then the first marriage was big news but now....well lets just say no one really seems to care.

From what I can see, it is allowing them the same benefits of marriage that I as a hetero am able to enjoy. Gays are not second class citizens and should have every freedom and privalege that is allowed to anyone else in my country. To deny them any privilage that is allowed to others it called discrimination.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Rog Sorry Matt but did I called him homosexual?

Quote by: Rog i know this affects you, but this is a debate so dont take it persona

I know English isn't your 1st language, Rog, but that statement there certainly makes it look like you think he is. I'm not saying you're insulting anyone or anything like that, but again, on this board, it's best not to make any assumptions.

Moving swiftly on...