Homosexual Marriage

[Halofan48]

Quote by: Rog I trully believe that is not the fact one is gay, but the fact that homos act the flamboyant. The only way for someone to know you are gay is the way you act, not what you do.

Um, no, that's not true. If you have sex with people of the same sex as you, it means you are at least bisexual.

The "flamboyant" thing is a stereotype. Not all gays are like that.

[Rog]

Quote by: Halofan48 Um, no, that's not true. If you have sex with people of the same sex as you, it means you are at least bisexual. The "flamboyant" thing is a stereotype. Not all gays are like that.

Yes you are right, not all homos are flamboyant and there is stereotype, but that is also true for other groups, Blacks, christians, hispanics, latinos, whites, mormans, catholics. on and on. you can't blame someone for stereotyping, thats human nature. Stereotypes are a result of most people of one group doing the same thing.
So even thought I know there are some gays that act normal. all gays I know are flamboyant. For gays to want equal rights they at lease need to act equal.

[Tycoon]

Yes you are right, not all homos are flamboyant and there is stereotype, but that is also true for other groups, Blacks, christians, hispanics, latinos, whites, mormans, catholics. on and on. you can't blame someone for stereotyping, thats human nature. Stereotypes are a result of most people of one group doing the same thing. So even thought I know there are some gays that act normal. all gays I know are flamboyant. For gays to want equal rights they at lease need to act equal.

That's ridiculous! I don't act flamboyant at all, and even if I did it has nothing to do with equal rights.

Blacks, Christians, Hispanics, Latinos, Whites, Momons, and Catholics all have equal rights as well, despite the way they are stereotyped. Not only are stereotypes not always true, in fact not often true, but it doesn't make a single bit of a difference anyways.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm So, if I... put my partner's ring on my finger keep his picture at my desk truthfully answer nosy questions from coworkers add him as beneficiary to any number of financial instruments cosign a mortgage with him truthfully answer questions about my sexual behavior posed by my doctor ...or encounter ANY NUMBER of routine interactions that ANY HETERO would be exposed to, how does that fit in with your assertion of "flamboyant" or the way I "act" -vs- "what I do"?

See most of what you wrote is part of your private life which you should keep private. why do you feel the need to share your private life with strangers and cooworkers? and if you dont know what I mean by flamboyant you should come to Orlando next year around the end of June, I would be glad to show you.

[yourmaster]

Arguing basis for stereotypes is all very well and good, but frankly it's nothing to base an arguement on and is really not worth my time, I know you are not talking about 100% of homosexuals, but you act like the number is high, well you are wrong, the gay pride parades you are talking about is pretty much all of the camp stereotypical gays in america, what is it a couple of thousand?

Simple maths, population of america, god knows the place is huge, lets take 250 million, 10% of people are supposedly not exclusively heterosexual, so that's 25million, 5000 is 0.02%.

If that is all you can come up with then frankly it's pathetic. I have taken into account a heck of a lot of camp "flamboyant" gays don't turn up to these events, so make it 10000, so what's that? 0.04%

[Rog]

Quote by: Tycoon That's ridiculous! I don't act flamboyant at all, and even if I did it has nothing to do with equal rights. Blacks, Christians, Hispanics, Latinos, Whites, Momons, and Catholics all have equal rights as well, despite the way they are stereotyped. Not only are stereotypes not always true, in fact not often true, but it doesn't make a single bit of a difference anyways.

I am not saying you are flamboyant, but I never met a gay guy that is not.
Stereotypes do not apply to everyone, but it does not change the fact they started for a reason.
We now have our first black presidetial candidate, do you think he would ever have a chance if he showed up to a debate earing cornrolls, spining rim as a neckless, neck tattoo and a criminal record?

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: mast The obvious is exactly the point, the simple fact that you are gay seperates you hugely from the majority of society, sexual drive is a huge factor in how we live our lives,

Not mine. All it determines is who I sleep with and what porn I own. Not a huge separation from the rest of society and culture.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog See most of what you wrote is part of your private life which you should keep private. why do you feel the need to share your private life with strangers and cooworkers?

If you actually read my reply for content, you'd know that each of the interactions I mentioned were either initiated by someone else, or a requirement for a legal/financial transaction.

When someone asks, are you suggesting I should reply "That's none of your business" or "I'd prefer not to share that information with you" or "That's private information"? Is that what you do? Is that what other heterosexuals do? If not, why the double standard?

I once lived my life like that. One female friend I had known since childhood and I got into a conversation about gay people. When she mentioned the same stereotypes as you have in this thread, I asked her how she was so sure gay people fit those stereotypes. She said: "That's what I've seen in sitcoms on TV. I don't know any gay people in real life." That's when I replied: "That's my fault" and let her know about myself. I also told her, without mentioning names, there were at least 4 other friends we had in common that were gay.

I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of my homosexuality or the relationship with my partner of 13 years.

Quote by: Rog and if you dont know what I mean by flamboyant you should come to Orlando next year around the end of June, I would be glad to show you.

That's because non-stereotypical gayfolk are transparent to you.

But more importantly, who made you the arbiter of how someone should act? What is your problem with people who are different than you?

It is the judgmental attitude of people like you that are interfering with issues for gay people, like same-sex marriage.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Rog So even thought I know there are some gays that act normal. all gays I know are flamboyant. For gays to want equal rights they at lease need to act equal.

So let me get this straight. You would deny people rights because they act different? I'm sorry, but that argument is ridiculous. Would you deny rights to any culture but your own? Be it White, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Class, Upper Class, Nobility, Muslim, Male, Female, whatever?

[Rog]

Quote by: Matt W So let me get this straight. You would deny people rights because they act different? I'm sorry, but that argument is ridiculous. Would you deny rights to any culture but your own? Be it White, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Class, Upper Class, Nobility, Muslim, Male, Female, whatever?

I am not against you. I would not deny it, it goes against my beliefs.
I am just telling thats the way things are now. and if you want equal rights you should try to be equal, not different.

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm If you actually read my reply for content, you'd know that each of the interactions I mentioned were either initiated by someone else, or a requirement for a legal/financial transaction. When someone asks, are you suggesting I should reply "That's none of your business" or "I'd prefer not to share that information with you" or "That's private information"? Is that what you do? Is that what other heterosexuals do? If not, why the double standard?

thats the way it is double standard exist, that human nature.
I am not saying you cant have a normal conversation about your personal life to someone. what I am saying it is easier to other people to grant the rights you want if you are not so different.

I once lived my life like that. One female friend I had known since childhood and I got into a conversation about gay people. When she mentioned the same stereotypes as you have in this thread, I asked her how she was so sure gay people fit those stereotypes. She said: "That's what I've seen in sitcoms on TV. I don't know any gay people in real life." That's when I replied: "That's my fault" and let her know about myself. I also told her, without mentioning names, there were at least 4 other friends we had in common that were gay. I'm not embarrassed or ashamed of my homosexuality or the relationship with my partner of 13 years.

You should not be, you should be proud of yourselves. I actually think it should be easier to maintain a same sex relationship than a mixed sex one.

That's because non-stereotypical gayfolk are transparent to you.

yes, and that is my point. if these individuals are working in a big company, because they are unvocal about their private lives they are more likelly to be promoted than the flamboyant one. I am not saying that is right, but that is life. Blacks been going thru this for a while, but now it seens like they are figuring out that beeing too different does not help.

But more importantly, who made you the arbiter of how someone should act? What is your problem with people who are different than you?

Sorry i am not trying to hurt your feelings. I am no one that should matter, peple psychology is interesting. I am more different than you can imagine.

It is the judgmental attitude of people like you that are interfering with issues for gay people, like same-sex marriage.

Not me, I am for same sex unions, I photograph many. But if you want the same rights you should pick a different name. marriage is taken.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Rog I am not against you. I would not deny it, it goes against my beliefs. I am just telling thats the way things are now. and if you want equal rights you should try to be equal, not different.

I'm sorry, but your argument isn't logical...nor backed up by history. Think about it. Did women get equal rights around the globe by acting exactly like men? Was the black civil rights movement in America lead by black people who wanted to be white?

Equal doesn't mean uniform. Rights are there to protect diversity, not discriminate against it.

[yourmaster]

I always thought that my arguement that I did before because I wanted to try to grasp the desperacy homophobes feel to rationalise their feelings, but frankly reading this just makes me feel awesome.
There are more logical fallacies in this then is possible to imagine and half of the replies have been ignored.
At least when there is a point I know when I have been beaten on I have the decency to congratulate the other person.

[Rog]

Quote by: Matt W I'm sorry, but your argument isn't logical...nor backed up by history. Think about it. Did women get equal rights around the globe by acting exactly like men? Was the black civil rights movement in America lead by black people who wanted to be white? Equal doesn't mean uniform. Rights are there to protect diversity, not discriminate against it.

I copy and paste myself since both of you keep on ignoring it.

"I am not saying you are flamboyant, but I never met a gay guy that is not.
Stereotypes do not apply to everyone, but it does not change the fact they started for a reason.
We now have our first black presidetial candidate, do you think he would ever have a chance if he showed up to a debate earing cornrolls, spining rim as a neckless, neck tattoo and a criminal record?"

[Matt W]

And you're ignoring my point. Regardless of the stereoptype, equality does not mean people should be uniform. Diversity is protected by rights, uniformity isn't enforced by them.

[tirregius]

Quote by: Mulkaccino A black person being able to use a clean, decent restroom was never one of their rights either. Should all black people have just packed their bags and moved to Africa? Whats special about black people over gays that they should be allowed to participate in a public national institutions yet gays should not? Granting solely Civil Unions to gays is a "seperate but equal" law. If you do not know what this is or do not understand it I will find a link for you ( I do not have full internet access when I post here generally). Can someone show me why my mentality is incorrect?

Mulkaccino,

I think we can agree that there is no "real" difference between races at all. No major religion on earth has ever banned interracial marriage.

There are IMMENSE differences between men and women.

This is why you cannot logically compare the two subjects.

To me it sounds like you are saying the equivalent of:

"At one time we would not let blacks become lawyers. Now people will just have to get used to the idea of lawyers being doctors. We can no longer discriminate against the lawyers and insist that they remain lawyers."

Tirregius.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: MattW And you're ignoring my point. Regardless of the stereoptype, equality does not mean people should be uniform. Diversity is protected by rights, uniformity isn't enforced by them.

I think what he's saying is that acting normal is more likely to get gays the same privileges as heteros; not that this should be the case. He's saying how it is; not saying that it's necessarily how it should be.

I'm rather inclined to agree with him. Most of the people I've seen who argue against homosexuality base their arguments on a false perception of homosexuals: that they're promiscuous, lacking in morals, freaks etc. Obviously this isn't the case generally, but if the most vocal homosexuals act this way, that's the impression idiots are going to get of homosexuality in general and they're less likely to want to grant gays the same privileges as heteros.

[Rog]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy I think what he's saying is that acting normal is more likely to get gays the same privileges as heteros; not that this should be the case. He's saying how it is; not saying that it's necessarily how it should be. I'm rather inclined to agree with him. Most of the people I've seen who argue against homosexuality base their arguments on a false perception of homosexuals: that they're promiscuous, lacking in morals, freaks etc. Obviously this isn't the case generally, but if the most vocal homosexuals act this way, that's the impression idiots are going to get of homosexuality in general and they're less likely to want to grant gays the same privileges as heteros.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy I think what he's saying is that acting normal is more likely to get gays the same privileges as heteros; not that this should be the case. He's saying how it is; not saying that it's necessarily how it should be. I'm rather inclined to agree with him. Most of the people I've seen who argue against homosexuality base their arguments on a false perception of homosexuals: that they're promiscuous, lacking in morals, freaks etc. Obviously this isn't the case generally, but if the most vocal homosexuals act this way, that's the impression idiots are going to get of homosexuality in general and they're less likely to want to grant gays the same privileges as heteros.

But the thing is I have no idea where these stereotypes come from, yes I've seen things like gay pride parades, but those people are so small in number. I don't even know a promiscuous stereotypical gay. In fact promiscuous is the thing I would refute most of all, I would think the opposite and have many theories that may be true in that sense. The fact is these stereotypes are outdated and unbased, further proof that stereotyping is unbased is that they have to resort to counterstereotypes, they create the picture of camp promiscuous gays and realise they aren't all like that, so they create counter stereotypes, the butch muscly gym gay. Stereotypes are bulls**t.

[italiangm]

Whether one wants to label the behavior as stereotype or promiscuous, in the US, a significant number of single gay men between teens and age 40 are having sex with several partners a year.

I haven't seen any recent studies, but I suspect the number of sexual partners per year has reduced a bit compared to data gathered before the 90s. I also suspect there has been an increase in dating and a reduction in one night stands. And finally, I'm pretty confident more gay males are engaged in safer sex practices compared to the 90s.