Homosexual Marriage

[Tycoon]

Actually, I agree with Rog here. I don't like the phrases "gay culture" or "gay community". My cultural and social influences are very much the same as those of any straight man from the same background as me. It seems kind of offensive to say that gay people are all part of some gay cultural movement; kind of like saying that all blacks are a part of hip-hop culture. A lot are, but a lot are part of the same cultural and social groups as the majority of people.

While it may be true that many blacks share the same cultural and social groups as the majority of people, it's also true that most share other cultural and social groups than the majority. Even if you are very similar to the majority being different still affects you in some ways and in some cases.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Tyke While it may be true that many blacks share the same cultural and social groups as the majority of people, it's also true that most share other cultural and social groups than the majority. Even if you are very similar to the majority being different still affects you in some ways and in some cases.

I agree that it does affect people in a lot of cases, which is why phrases like "gay culture" exist in the first place. I just don't like the implication that being gay necessarily sets you apart socially or culturally from the mainstream.

Personally I can't think of anything I do or see differently due to homosexuality, aside from the obvious.

[Tycoon]

I agree that it does affect people in a lot of cases, which is why phrases like "gay culture" exist in the first place. I just don't like the implication that being gay necessarily sets you apart socially or culturally from the mainstream.

I wouldn't see it as being gay that sets you apart from society and culture, but more that society sets you apart from culture for being gay.

Personally I can't think of anything I do or see differently due to homosexuality, aside from the obvious.

Do you have children? Adopted or biological? Do you participate in religion? What social groups do you participate in?

You're here debating. The internet forums are a beacon for gays, somebody else has mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree as I'm here as well. So is Jack. So is HelioPrime. So is YourMaster and a bunch of other people.

[Rog]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Actually, I agree with Rog here. I really don't like the phrases "gay culture" or "gay community". My cultural and social influences are very much the same as those of any straight man from the same background as me. It seems kind of offensive to say that gay people are all part of some exclusive gay sub-culture; kind of like saying that all blacks are a part of hip-hop culture. A lot are, but a lot are part of the same cultural and social groups as the majority of people.

Yes, you see some of my point.

[Rog]

You as a homo want the "same" rights as everyone else, so why would you try to be different? you sexual preference in bed should not make you change from being a part of the same communities as everyone else, should it? why do gay "guys" have to change they way the act and talk? is that to fit in? I dont think one have to "act" gay to be gay...

[Tycoon]

You as a homo want the "same" rights as everyone else, so why would you try to be different? you sexual preference in bed should not make you change from being a part of the same communities as everyone else, should it? why do gay "guys" have to change they way the act and talk? is that to fit in? I dont think one have to "act" gay to be gay...

We want the same rights, but we don't have them, and that sets us apart. And no, my sexual preference shouldn't keep me out of communities. It's communities that would keep me out for my sexual preference.

I don't act or talk different. I dress like a normal teenager would, and that connects me with the majority, not the minority. But at the same time being gay changes some things. If I hadn't been gay I'd still be strongly Christian. I probably wouldn't be here debating.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Tyke I wouldn't see it as being gay that sets you apart from society and culture, but more that society sets you apart from culture for being gay.

Depends on the society. I certainly haven't found myself shunned or judged as a result of being gay.

Quote by: Tyke Do you have children? Adopted or biological?

No, but I wouldn't do if I was straight, either.

Quote by: Tyke Do you participate in religion?

See above. Been an atheist since I was ten; long before I would have identified myself as gay.

Quote by: Tyke What social groups do you participate in?

I don't like to catagorise people into social groups, but I suppose most of my friends would be seen as a mix nerds, stoners and metalheads, with a few other groups thrown in. I actually know very few gay people, and even less who would be considered part of "the gay community".

Quote by: Tyke You're here debating. The internet forums are a beacon for gays, somebody else has mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree as I'm here as well. So is Jack. So is HelioPrime. So is YourMaster and a bunch of other people.

I post here as a libertarian; not a gay. I don't even think I would have identified myself as gay when I joined Volconvo.

[Tycoon]

Depends on the society. I certainly haven't found myself shunned or judged as a result of being gay.

Well I certainly know it happens. Just a couple weeks ago a family left my family's church because there were two gay couples there.

No, but I wouldn't do if I was straight, either.

Your opinion might be different if you were straight, and you can't know.

See above. Been an atheist since I was ten; long before I would have identified myself as gay.

Well, you're not exactly a sample group. There are bound to be some gays who were atheist before they realized they were gay.

I don't like to catagorise people into social groups, but I suppose most of my friends would be seen as a mix nerds, stoners and metalheads, with a few other groups thrown in. I actually know very few gay people, and even less who would be considered part of "the gay community".

Nevertheless it seems you fall into an outcast group.

I post here as a libertarian; not a gay. I don't even think I identified myself as gay when I joined Volconvo.

And I'm sure HelioPrime posts as a Christian, and Jack as an atheist etc. It doesn't change the fact that many people here are gay.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Tyke Well I certainly know it happens. Just a couple weeks ago a family left my family's church because there were two gay couples there.

I don't doubt it happens with some people; just not with all gays.

Quote by: Tyke Your opinion might be different if you were straight, and you can't know.

I've always disliked children, even before I knew I was gay. Seems kind of like grasping at straws to try to attribute this to homosexuality. Plenty of straight folks don't like kids either.

Quote by: Tyke Well, you're not exactly a sample group.

I don't claim to be, or that my experiences represent the majority of gay people. I'm just arguing against the idea that being gay necessarily sets one apart from the rest of society.

Quote by: Tyke Nevertheless it seems you fall into an outcast group.

I personally don't fall into any group; I just gave the groups which I think my friends, if I was forced to categorise them, would best fit into. I mix with people from many groups, based on personality and shared interests, rather than being driven into a particular "outcast" clique.

Besides, where I'm from there aren't generally mainstream and outcast groups; just different groups with different interests and backgrounds. You don't tend to get a mainstream "jocks and cheerleaders" and fringe "nerds and goths" kind of situation.

Quote by: Tyke And I'm sure HelioPrime posts as a Christian, and Jack as an atheist etc. It doesn't change the fact that many people here are gay.

But the point is that I wasn't drawn here as a result of homosexuality or a desire to discuss it; I was drawn by a desire to discuss politics from a libertarian perspective.

[Rog]

Quote by: Tycoon We want the same rights, but we don't have them, and that sets us apart. And no, my sexual preference shouldn't keep me out of communities. It's communities that would keep me out for my sexual preference.

that cause and effect.
Some gays change when they become gay, I have experience this with a friend.
he completed changed the way he acted, dress, talk to fit with the gay crowd, not the other way around.

I don't act or talk different. I dress like a normal teenager would, and that connects me with the majority, not the minority. But at the same time being gay changes some things. If I hadn't been gay I'd still be strongly Christian. I probably wouldn't be here debating.

you can be gay and be christian, belonging to a religious group and being christian are not synonymous.

[italiangm]

What do the last few entries have to do with the topic?

[Rog]

Quote by: italiangm What do the last few entries have to do with the topic?

nothing really, including yours. what was the topic again??

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog nothing really, including yours. what was the topic again??

Homosexual marriage.

[Tycoon]

nothing really, including yours. what was the topic again??

Well it started with you picking at a single word.

[ShadowFox]

Going off topic again so...CUT IT OUT!

Anyways, all the arguments against gay marriage are pathetic and have been beaten down time and again. Why can't people just let it happen? Seriously, unless they are your family members or close friends, it won't affect you. Gah, intolerance is so annoying.

[The Bacon Guy]

Quote by: Halo Anyways, all the arguments against gay marriage are pathetic and have been beaten down time and again.

To be fair, I don't think anyone has actually provided a valid reason to have state-sponsored marriage at all. You shouldn't have the government introduce something like that for no good reason.

[Rog]

Quote by: Halofan48 Going off topic again so...CUT IT OUT! Anyways, all the arguments against gay marriage are pathetic and have been beaten down time and again. Why can't people just let it happen? Seriously, unless they are your family members or close friends, it won't affect you. Gah, intolerance is so annoying.

its all about the choice of word, if you replace marriage with something else, it would be easier for them to accept it.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy I agree that it does affect people in a lot of cases, which is why phrases like "gay culture" exist in the first place. I just don't like the implication that being gay necessarily sets you apart socially or culturally from the mainstream. Personally I can't think of anything I do or see differently due to homosexuality, aside from the obvious.

The obvious is exactly the point, the simple fact that you are gay seperates you hugely from the majority of society, sexual drive is a huge factor in how we live our lives, being gay thus makes you hugely different to the majorities.

Granted the word "race" was poor etymology, but that is all it is, poor etymology, not exactly basis for an arguement I don't think.

[Rog]

Quote by: yourmaster The obvious is exactly the point, the simple fact that you are gay seperates you hugely from the majority of society, sexual drive is a huge factor in how we live our lives, being gay thus makes you hugely different to the majorities. Granted the word "race" was poor etymology, but that is all it is, poor etymology, not exactly basis for an arguement I don't think.

I trully believe that is not the fact one is gay, but the fact that homos act the flamboyant. The only way for someone to know you are gay is the way you act, not what you do.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Rog I trully believe that is not the fact one is gay, but the fact that homos act the flamboyant. The only way for someone to know you are gay is the way you act, not what you do.

So, if I...

put my partner's ring on my finger
keep his picture at my desk
truthfully answer nosy questions from coworkers
add him as beneficiary to any number of financial instruments
cosign a mortgage with him
truthfully answer questions about my sexual behavior posed by my doctor

...or encounter ANY NUMBER of routine interactions that ANY HETERO would be exposed to, how does that fit in with your assertion of "flamboyant" or the way I "act" -vs- "what I do"?