Homosexual Marriage

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Tycoon And I am saying that any homosexual couple that does not have a child should have just as many rights and priveleges as any heterosexual couple that does not have a child. Any homosexual couple that does have a child should have just as many rights and priveleges as any heterosexual couple that also has a child.

It seems the point of disagreements are such:
I don't agree with homosexual adoption.
I am claiming for a universal reduction in privellages instead of an increase as it is harsh on singles.

Quote by: Tycoon You should not lump couples into the two separate groups of homosexual and heterosexual. While it is true that homosexual couples procreate less it really doesn't matter. The homosexual couples that do procreate should be given the same priveleges as the heterosexual couples that procreate, and the homosexual couples that do not procreate should be given the same priveleges as the heterosexual couples that do not procreate.

Homosexual couples that procreate remain reasonably sparse, though admittedly the numbers are increasing thanks to new technologies the numbers are still small, though once again for now I remain against homosexuals rearing children so I would disagree with the use of those technologies.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Tycoon Well there are homosexual couples that can send their children to private school. And home-schooling requires less qualifications than you imagine. The point is, there are exceptions, and just because some homosexual couples chose not to procreate doesn't mean the others should be taken away from.

I fear that we are going too far into irrelvant tangeants here, but for a while let's continue.
Home schooling would be an ideal situation for children of homosexual parentage. That would be fine and if it remains viable then I have no major issue with it, however from my experience of home schooled children, though undoubtedly they are very nice children they lack the social skills one would pick up in school.
Does homeschooling no longer require the equivalent to teaching qualifications in all taught subjects?

[Tycoon]

I don't agree with homosexual adoption.

You have to provide a good reason, other than the threat of bullying. Everybody gets bullied every now and then.

I am claiming for a universal reduction in privellages instead of an increase as it is harsh on singles.

Then reduce the priveleges for everybody, but give homosexual couples the same priveleges as heterosexual couples.

Homosexual couples that procreate remain reasonably sparse, though admittedly the numbers are increasing thanks to new technologies the numbers are still small, though once again for now I remain against homosexuals rearing children so I would disagree with the use of those technologies.

Those numbers still remain irrelevant. If they chose to have children, they will. If they don't chose, they won't. The same can be said of heterosexual couples.

That would be fine and if it remains viable then I have no major issue with it, however from my experience of home schooled children, though undoubtedly they are very nice children they lack the social skills one would pick up in school.

That would be a debate about the idea of homeschooling, not homosexual marriage.

Does homeschooling no longer require the equivalent to teaching qualifications in all taught subjects?

I don't think it does. One of my brother's friends is homeschooled, and his mother (single parent) is only a piano instructer. I think he is just given the materials and left to do it himself.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: tycoon Good news! California's top court legalizes gay marriage - Yahoo! News

"America is built on a tilt and everything loose slides to California."
Mark Twain.

(just me having a laugh)

PS...yourmaster seems to have forgotten me ><

[yourmaster]

I hadn't forgotten you, merely not had enough time to get around to it.

Quote by: Winter wind why would you want to rid the world of homosexuality in the first place?

Homosexuality's existence has caused much heartache for a lot of people, who's at fault for that is partly irrelevant, I still think that eliminating it healthily, i.e: not methods of suppression and fear of homosexual urges, then it would be beneficial.

Quote by: Winter wind When is the best time for equality? Tomorrow, a year, a decade, a century, never?

Tomorrow, there is no dispute about that, but it won't happen tomorrow, nor the day after that, it will come, but until then we must minimalise heartache and suffering as much as we can for homosexuals and those affiliated with them.

Quote by: Winter wind The best time for justice is always the present moment. Homophobia will die out as homosexuals become more mainstream with marriage and such. I've lived through it and I can tell you that as soon as people get to know you aren't so weird and can see past the superficial, they change their minds real fast.

I don't deny that people's views on homosexuality change drastically when they get to know some of us. Ask any homosexual and they will tell you that when they came out to their friends their friends opinions changed, realising that the person is a good person and a friend, just gay.
That will still happen, homophobia will go whether there is homosexual marriage or not, homophobia is on the way out, political correctness is on the way out, equality is superlative, but we have to wait for it to come before we act on it.

[Tycoon]

Homosexuality's existence has caused much heartache for a lot of people, who's at fault for that is partly irrelevant, I still think that eliminating it healthily, i.e: not methods of suppression and fear of homosexual urges, then it would be beneficial.

I would rather work towards having homosexuality become accepted than work towards eliminating it. Sexual-orientation is just another thing that makes us different, and it would be better to avoid eliminating our differences. Eliminating homosexuality would also be a step towards "designer babies", where you pick all the traits you want in your baby before it's born. Not a good idea.

[Tycoon]

Tomorrow, there is no dispute about that, but it won't happen tomorrow, nor the day after that, it will come, but until then we must minimalise heartache and suffering as much as we can for homosexuals and those affiliated with them.

I think that they, myself included, are willing to put up with a little heartache and suffering in order to gain equality. After all, it's not going to happen without any heartache and suffering, and I want it to happen while I'm still around to see it.

That will still happen, homophobia will go whether there is homosexual marriage or not, homophobia is on the way out, political correctness is on the way out, equality is superlative, but we have to wait for it to come before we act on it.

It's on its way out because we aren't waiting for it, we're doing something about it. Gay marriage being legalized in California was the result of lawsuits, not a result of sitting around.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: yourmaster Homosexuality's existence has caused much heartache for a lot of people, who's at fault for that is partly irrelevant, I still think that eliminating it healthily, i.e: not methods of suppression and fear of homosexual urges, then it would be beneficial.

my friend's cousin got disowned by his family for dating a black guy (georgia).
That doesn't mean you get rid of the marriage.

Tomorrow, there is no dispute about that, but it won't happen tomorrow, nor the day after that, it will come, but until then we must minimalise heartache and suffering as much as we can for homosexuals and those affiliated with them.

Who are we to judge when that is?

I don't deny that people's views on homosexuality change drastically when they get to know some of us. Ask any homosexual and they will tell you that when they came out to their friends their friends opinions changed, realising that the person is a good person and a friend, just gay. That will still happen, homophobia will go whether there is homosexual marriage or not, homophobia is on the way out, political correctness is on the way out, equality is superlative, but we have to wait for it to come before we act on it.

But you said it yourself. People just have to get to know homosexuals. All the more reason to legitimize them as equals to heterosexuals.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Tycoon I would rather work towards having homosexuality become accepted than work towards eliminating it. Sexual-orientation is just another thing that makes us different, and it would be better to avoid eliminating our differences. Eliminating homosexuality would also be a step towards "designer babies", where you pick all the traits you want in your baby before it's born. Not a good idea.

I completely agree with all said there, but if the heartache can be stopped with relative ease by eliminating an environmental factor then surely that would be for the best? Though I'm sceptical as to the influence of environmental factors of sexual orientation.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Tycoon I think that they, myself included, are willing to put up with a little heartache and suffering in order to gain equality. After all, it's not going to happen without any heartache and suffering, and I want it to happen while I'm still around to see it.

It's on its way out because we aren't waiting for it, we're doing something about it. Gay marriage being legalized in California was the result of lawsuits, not a result of sitting around.[/quote]

Who said we should sit around and wait for equality to come to us, yes work for acceptance, yes have campaigns to inform people, yes do as much as we can for equality, but why do innocent children have to be dragged into it while their foster parents battle for equality?

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Winter wind Who are we to judge when that is?

Anyone can see that equality will not come overnight.

Quote by: Tycoon But you said it yourself. People just have to get to know homosexuals. All the more reason to legitimize them as equals to heterosexuals.

Legalising gay marriage will encourage people to get to know homosexuals?

[Halofan48]

Who said we should sit around and wait for equality to come to us, yes work for acceptance, yes have campaigns to inform people, yes do as much as we can for equality, but why do innocent children have to be dragged into it while their foster parents battle for equality?

Wait, when did he mention custody battles and children? I must of missed it.

Legalising gay marriage will encourage people to get to know homosexuals?

It might make being a homosexual less of a taboo to people if they are being treated equally.

[SoylentGreen]

yourmasterHomosexuality's existence has caused much heartache for a lot of people, who's at fault for that is partly irrelevant,

I am curious as to what you mean by heartache?

[Tycoon]

I completely agree with all said there, but if the heartache can be stopped with relative ease by eliminating an environmental factor then surely that would be for the best? Though I'm sceptical as to the influence of environmental factors of sexual orientation.

Maybe in the short run but not in the long run. I consider it unethical either way.

Who said we should sit around and wait for equality to come to us, yes work for acceptance, yes have campaigns to inform people, yes do as much as we can for equality, but why do innocent children have to be dragged into it while their foster parents battle for equality?

Well hopefully we won't be fighting for equality much longer.

Legalising gay marriage will encourage people to get to know homosexuals?

Like Halofan48 says, it will become less taboo.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: yourmaster Anyone can see that equality will not come overnight.

It hasn't. How long has it been since homosexuality was a capital crime?
No one is asking for it to happen overnight, rather asking it to take this next step now.

Legalising gay marriage will encourage people to get to know homosexuals?

It legitimizes them in legal society. Isn't the only factor, but it helps a lot. Plus, it's the right thing to do.

PS. congrats yourmaster. You have half the forum running circles around you.

[Marilyn Monroe]

The homophobes are afraid that homosexuals will change society, and not for the better. That's what the fear is. Personally, I think the way it's going is the way change happens, usually very annoyingly slow.

To me life is short, so all people should have the same chances for happiness. Sexual orientation is just one factor, there are so many others.

I also don't care if it's a choice or not anymore, it is what it is, get over it and live.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: SoylentGreen I am curious as to what you mean by heartache?

For example, how the hell am I meant to tell my parents of my sexual orientation, ask any gay person and they'll tell you of the fear of retribution and disownment which is a very real prospect. Even short of this there is more likely then not going to be hostilities or problems in the relationship, all swell for emotional development.
Whoever is to blame, homosexuality with it brings waves of problems with it, especially to the children growing up affiliated to it, either because they are homosexual or are close to one.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Tycoon Maybe in the short run but not in the long run. I consider it unethical either way.

You may be right, but my point remains.
I call for universal reductions in rights that would be relieved when the couple raises children, so parental heterosexual couples would be the same as they are now.
Homosexual adoption is the point here, I disagree with homosexual adoption, I respect you are not and it seems there's little I can do to change that, but essentially if homosexuals cannot adopt then they are of lesser potential rights to heterosexuals of their own choice to not procreate heterosexuality, the option remains to live with full rights, privellages, etc. Though very few will choose it there is nothing we can do about that. This leads onto the other point about possibilities of eliminating homosexuality altogether, which I would still seem to be beneficial, see post above.

Quote by: Tycoon Well hopefully we won't be fighting for equality much longer.

Hopefully we will not, but I doubt it. When that time comes a re-evaluation is in order.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Winter wind It hasn't. How long has it been since homosexuality was a capital crime? No one is asking for it to happen overnight, rather asking it to take this next step now It legitimizes them in legal society. Isn't the only factor, but it helps a lot. Plus, it's the right thing to do..

I feel I've answered this already. :-/

Quote by: Winter wind PS. congrats yourmaster. You have half the forum running circles around you.

I'm not quite sure if that's a compliment or an insult.xP

[Winter wind]

Quote by: yourmaster I'm not quite sure if that's a compliment or an insult.xP

I meant it in the good way. Debating all these guys isn't easy.

I feel I've answered this already. :-/

maybe the second part, but the first part is my true belief. However, if you are saying just let the legal system work and in the mean time, try and help with the transition, I agree.

I'm probably missing something.

maybe the second part, but