Homosexual Marriage

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Anmon I'm not saying gays are evil because their gay, I'm saying pushing gay marriage and adoption into society to be recognised as accepted normal practice by law, when the average person doesn't think so, is.

Common opinion is worthless within debate, the majority of the public can be just as wrong as any one person.
This is far from a valid arguement against gay marriage, do try again.

[Anmon]

Quote by: yourmaster Common opinion is worthless within debate, the majority of the public can be just as wrong as any one person. This is far from a valid arguement against gay marriage, do try again.

Even if they are wrong, its still what they want, and the majority's wishes should be respected above everything else, for a smoother running society,

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Anmon What about pedophiles, do you think they should have equal rights, wouldn't you be discriminating against them if you denied them what they wanted?

If you're going to carry on on this tangeant then just drop it, I also concede the point that paedophilia may be choiceless.
Paedophiles have and lose their rights at the same rate as any other person, depending on the criminal actions and their remorse upon those actions their freedom's are limited, the same goes for homosexuals, heterosexuals, anyone.
Paedophiles have equal rights you will find, they can marry just as long as they marry somebody old enough to be eligible to marry and that consents.
This really needn't be said.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Anmon Even if they are wrong, its still what they want, and the majority's wishes should be respected above everything else, for a smoother running society,

Which is where we go back to this being equated to women's rights, freedom of religion, racial discrimination, etc. Just because the majority want it does not always make it right. Or just.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Anmon Even if they are wrong, its still what they want, and the majority's wishes should be respected above everything else, for a smoother running society,

There was a time when it was common opinion that women were inferior beings, in some part that still continues but that's a whole different tangeant, there was a time when blacks were considered worthless of being anything other then slaves.
Were those common opinions right? Should those common opinions have been respected and we should have continued discriminating against women and blacks?

[Anmon]

I don't think this means you can apply that thinking to opposition of gay marriage as well, and it probably still is common opinion that women and blacks are inferior in some ways, but no one is allowed to say that or face abuse, just like now with gays.
The pedos will be using your argument soon as well, in fact their starting to now, just look at a few of the threads in Adult and you will see what I mean.

[yourmaster]

Quote by: Anmon I don't think this means you can apply that thinking to opposition of gay marriage as well, and it probably still is common opinion that women and blacks are inferior in some ways, but no one is allowed to say that or face abuse, just like now with gays. The pedos will be using your argument soon as well, in fact their starting to now, just look at a few of the threads in Adult and you will see what I mean.

The ideas of women being inferior have dropped so massively that they are almost nil, there are obviously physical aspects where women are weaker, by and large women are weaker, this is not the discrimination that was commonly supported back then.
There is still discrimination against blacks, but again not to any proportion of what it used to be. Blacks are no longer seen as slave material, they are now human beings, even if some are suspicious of them in terms of crime rates.
Things have changed, the common opinion was proven wrong, this is highly applicable to gay marriage because you are using common opinion in a debate, which is clearly void for reasons stated above.

[Tycoon]

I don't think this means you can apply that thinking to opposition of gay marriage as well, and it probably still is common opinion that women and blacks are inferior in some ways, but no one is allowed to say that or face abuse, just like now with gays. The pedos will be using your argument soon as well, in fact their starting to now, just look at a few of the threads in Adult and you will see what I mean.

It is not common opinion that women and blacks are inferior. I see no reason why this argument can't apply to homosexuality.

Pedophiles will not be given the same view. Pedophilia is wrong because you are doing things with children who either don't consent or were coerced into consenting. Not to mention it is harmful to them psychologically.

None of those things apply to homosexuality.

[Jack]

Even if they are wrong, its still what they want, and the majority's wishes should be respected above everything else, for a smoother running society,

If the majority can only create a "smooth running" society be treating its citizens unequally and making injustice acceptable, then they don't derserve a smooth running society. In fact, subjegating segments of the society is a sure way to guarantee they won't. Oppression is rarely tolerated when the means to protest it are available. And ours are built into the Constitution.

[Anmon]

[quote]

Quote by: Isherwood If the majority can only create a "smooth running" society be treating its citizens unequally and making injustice acceptable, then they don't derserve a smooth running society.

This is not a smooth running society, and is going to fall apart from the social engineering techniques employed by socialists since the sixtys to make this come about.

In fact, subjegating segments of the society is a sure way to guarantee they won't. Oppression is rarely tolerated when the means to protest it are available. And ours are built into the Constitution.

Where does it say in the Constitution that men should be allowed to marry each other and raise family's together?

[Matt W]

Where does it say in the Constitution that you should be able to use a computer?

[Anmon]

[quote]

Quote by: Tycoon It is not common opinion that women and blacks are inferior.

Well why is there so much work put into persuading the public that this is the case?
If that was accepted already in society, then we wouldn't be having this disagreement.
Personally I don't think anyone is inferior because of their race or sex, I just don't go with all the pc nonsense that comes with it.

I see no reason why this argument can't apply to homosexuality.

Well pedophiles will probably be claiming the same handle soon to leap up onto the equal rights band wagon that you are.
Go down to Adult forum for confirmation of this.

Pedophiles will not be given the same view. Pedophilia is wrong because you are doing things with children who either don't consent or were coerced into consenting. Not to mention it is harmful to them psychologically.

Well we know its wrong, and even some of them know its wrong, but they will still see the progress you guys have made with the civil rights equal opportunity's argument, and will apply it to their case as well.
I can honestly now see members of nambla handing out pamphlets to the public asking for equal rights one day, and they will invoke freedom of speech, civil liberty's if anyone disagrees.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Matt W Where does it say in the Constitution that you should be able to use a computer?

How can you use that as an argument? Computers weren't around then, but gay men were, and if gays not being allowed to marry was seen as discrimination and a pressing issue then, it would have been mentioned.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Anmon How can you use that as an argument? Computers weren't around then, but gay men were, and if gays not being allowed to marry was seen as discrimination and a pressing issue then, it would have been mentioned.

Blacks were around then too, and racial discrimination wasn't mentioned either. Slaves were. Society evolves. Need I go on?

[Anmon]

Gay marriage is not evolving, sure blacks given freedom was, but your applying the same argument for much differing reasons.
Are you aware that blacks were selling blacks into slavery in Africa, or is this an 'elephant in the corner' that doesn't tie in with your pc view on history?

[Matt W]

Quote by: Anmon Gay marriage is not evolving, sure blacks given freedom was, but your applying the same argument for much differing reasons. Also what does racial discrimination have to do with slavery? Are you aware that blacks were selling blacks into slavery in Africa, or is this an 'elephant in the corner' that doesn't tie in with your pc view on history?

You're avoiding the question. You asked where in the Constitution does it say anything about gay marriage. Shown a similar denial of rights that also isn't in the Constitution, and you backpedal.

I am fully aware of what happened in Africa regarding slavery, well before the white man turned up. It's a red herring, though, and beside the point.

[Anmon]

=Matt W;497031]You're avoiding the question. You asked where in the Constitution does it say anything about gay marriage. Shown a similar denial of rights that also isn't in the Constitution, and you backpedal.

I would say the founding fathers never envisioned America falling so morally hard on its arse in the mid-late 20th Century to now. I'm sure if they had, they would definitely written in non recognition of gay marriage.
You cant use their ignorance of todays fallen western societys as a legitimate excuse to use the constitution as applying for your views.

I am fully aware of what happened in Africa regarding slavery, well before the white man turned up. It's a red herring, though, and beside the point.

Just pointing out everyone and every race used slavery in the past, its not just a black thing as the stereotype suggests.
Also slavery still exists in parts of the world.

[Matt W]

You cant use their ignorance of todays fallen western societys as a legitimate excuse to use the constitution as applying for your views.

Why not? They didn't write in anything about racial discrimination, or sexual equality, and yet you don't appear to have a problem with that?

[Anmon]

That wasn't around either in law, but probably was discussed, I doubt gay marriage would have even been seriously considered as anything but a joke by the average person, if it was thought of at all.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Anmon That wasn't around either in law, but probably was discussed, I doubt gay marriage would have even been seriously considered as anything but a joke by the average person, if it was thought of at all.

No excuse. Votes were women were almost certainly thought of as a joke, yet we have them now. Racial equality was something thought of as eccentric, yet we have it now.

Again, trying to move the goalposts is not helping you.