Homosexual Marriage

[Anmon]

Quote by: Halofan48 Actually, it makes perfect sense. Lets say you are gay. Unfortunately, you live in a community where most people are prejudice against homosexuals. They may say that that were raped by a gay man, which turned them gay, so the community won't completely hate him. If malcontent towards homosexuals is part of your community, I could see why they would say such things.

Well if that was the case, they wouldn't have come for councelling about it.
These guys dont lie about stuff like that, you know when someone is making it up and when their not, and I

[Jack]

Quote by: Anmon I have just offered what has been common knowledge for millenia, unless you actually think that in boys homes, institutions, hostels and jails this kind of thing just never happens?

You say it's been common knowledge. Why should I believe what you say? Do you believe everything I say? That's why I asked for something to support that opinion.

They didn't choose either, I have spoken to guys about it, they told me they were raped, some a lot, it messed their heads up, and they eventually became gay because of it.

I don't doubt rape can mess up your head. But I don't see where the sex of the rapist makes it any worse. How many women raped by men "become" lesbians?

[Anmon]

Quote by: Halofan48 Actually, it makes perfect sense. Lets say you are gay. Unfortunately, you live in a community where most people are prejudice against homosexuals. They may say that that were raped by a gay man, which turned them gay, so the community won't completely hate him. If malcontent towards homosexuals is part of your community, I could see why they would say such things.

Well if that was the case, they wouldn't have needed any councelling.
Its sad, but this stuff does happen, whether you know about it or not.

[Jack]

These guys dont lie about stuff like that, you know when someone is making it up and when their not, and I

Christianity gives the gift of mind-reading, too? Heck, I never got that ability.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Isherwood You see this often? I live in a predominantly gay neighborhood and I have yet to see anything more "sleazy" than two people of the same sex walking down the street hand-in-hand. Should we be teaching children that some love is sleazy but other love is OK? In my book, love is love is love. Love between two consenting adults is a wonder to behold, whatever their gender.

Well in my book, only men and women should hold hands together, and to see the same sex doing it is pathetic and sad to say the least.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Isherwood Christianity gives the gift of mind-reading, too? Heck, I never got that ability.

Its called body language Isherwood.

[gela]

Ok.. can I just point out one of many contradictions

Quote by: Anmon ...with nothing substantial to back it up.

Yes, its a deep mental illness.

Because nature created opposite sexes specifically for procreation, gays are then a mishap, something has obviously gone wrong.

Because its not natural, its twisted.

It is an evil cruel cowardly act on a defenseless human being,

The fact is, you arn't debating at all. You are just winging about how you, personaly, dislike gay people.

You are not providing any evidence, and you are not even giving a logical argument.

All you are saying, is that 'everyone agrees with me'.
Guess what. There are very few people who agree with you - you are a dying breed. I have never met someone my own age who has a problem with gay people.

On a side note, Ill give you some proof that homosexuality is natural.
The definition of natural, is 'existing outside of human intervention'.
Homosexuality exists outside of human intervention - several gay animales have been recorded. Google it, theres a wikipedia article about it.

I believe gayness is mostly but, a learned behaviour by people who cannot relate properly to the opposite sex, who hate or fear them.

This is quite funny, because most gay guys get on great with women. Much better then straight men do.

[Jack]

In the Psychological Operations unit I was in while in the Army we studied that a lot, as well as other physical indicators.* You know what? None of them are foolproof. None of them are absolutely effective. Nothing allows anyone to say with certainty that he knows what's going on in someone else's mind.

(* That is one of the worst sentences I've ever constructed.)

[Anmon]

=Isherwood;494923]You say it's been common knowledge. Why should I believe what you say? Do you believe everything I say? That's why I asked for something to support that opinion.

The Homosexuality Factor in Prison Violence

I don't doubt rape can mess up your head. But I don't see where the sex of the rapist makes it any worse.

Its not hard to guess that it would be a lot more violent and life threatening, done to you by men.

How many women raped by men "become" lesbians?

I'm sure there would be a lot.

[Jack]

Quote by: Anmon Well in my book, only men and women should hold hands together, and to see the same sex doing it is pathetic and sad to say the least.

Thinking that two people exhibiting their affection for one another is pathetic and sad is, well, pathetic and sad. I'm sorry that anyone's religious beliefs would spur them to such intolerance and discomfort at the sight of two people in love.

[Anmon]

Ok.. can I just point out one of many contradictions Quote: Quote by: Anmon ...with nothing substantial to back it up. Quote: Yes, its a deep mental illness. Quote: Because nature created opposite sexes specifically for procreation, gays are then a mishap, something has obviously gone wrong. Quote: Because its not natural, its twisted. Quote: It is an evil cruel cowardly act on a defenseless human being,

You are misconstruing your quotes here, like what does the last quote here of mine even have to do with the rest?
You are just picking stuff to quote at random, that doesn't even connect with other stuff.

The fact is, you aren't debating at all. You are just winging about how you, personally, dislike gay people.

Where have I said I dislike gay people? I have said I dislike sleaze, I dislike gay behaviour in public, I don't agree with gay marriage or gays being allowed to raise family's like men and women do.
I have never mentioned I dislike gays simply because their gay, as you are fudging.
I dislike political correctness more than anything.

You are not providing any evidence, and you are not even giving a logical argument.

I have provided my opinion, which is shared by most of society, thats all the evidence you need.

All you are saying, is that 'everyone agrees with me'.

Not everyone, but most easily.

Guess what. There are very few people who agree with you - you are a dying breed. I have never met someone my own age who has a problem with gay people.

Guess what, there are probably more people in the world who agree with me than you, everyone your own age is so brainwashed with fear of speaking out against anything politically correct, so how could you honestly know?

On a side note, Ill give you some proof that homosexuality is natural. The definition of natural, is 'existing outside of human intervention'. Homosexuality exists outside of human intervention - several gay animales have been recorded. Google it, theres a wikipedia article about it.

I'll give you some proof its not natural- penis in vagina make baby, penis in bum make nothing, no point really for it to happen then.
The gay animals are confused and screwed up too.

This is quite funny, because most gay guys get on great with women. Much better then straight men do.

Most gay men do not like women much at all, as most lesbians do not like men, do you know of many gay men that live with women or the reverse?

[italiangm]

Quote by: Anmon Because nature created opposite sexes specifically for procreation, gays are then a mishap, something has obviously gone wrong.

Not so fast.

What if homosexual behavior occurs through individual selection for reciprocal altruism?

Same-sex alliances have repeatedly shown to have reproductive advantages, and homosexual behavior can serve to maintain these alliances. Same-sex alliances help opposite-sexed individuals survive and subsequently reproduce.

Even nonhuman primates use homosexual behavior in same-sex alliances, and such alliances appear to have been key in the expanded distribution of human ancestors during the Pleistocene era. Homosexual emotion and behavior are, in part, emergent qualities of the human propensity for same-sex association.

No one questions the fact that heterosexual behavior serves non-conceptive functions such as the maintenance of long-term bonds. If homosexual behavior also serves non-conceptive functions, such as the maintenance of same-sex alliances (long-term supportive relationships) that aid in resource competition and cooperative defense, homosexual behavior would be considered a positive selection. Homosexual behavior is therefore a survival strategy, supporting the propagation of a species' reproductive strategy.

Given the context cited above, homosexuality survived thousands of years because it is something that has gone right.

We can only hope you are not so blinded by your dogma that there's room in your narrow worldview to see homosexuality as a successful survival strategy for the species. You still have time to develop a greater sense of understanding and appreciation for sexual diversity and how it works to the advantage of many species including our own.

[Anmon]

Quote by: Isherwood Thinking that two people exhibiting their affection for one another is pathetic and sad is, well, pathetic and sad. I'm sorry that anyone's religious beliefs would spur them to such intolerance and discomfort at the sight of two people in love.

lust more like it.

[Anmon]

Quote by: italiangm What if homosexual behavior occurs through individual selection for reciprocal altruism? Same-sex alliances have repeatedly shown to have reproductive advantages, and homosexual behavior can serve to maintain these alliances. Same-sex alliances help opposite-sexed individuals survive and subsequently reproduce. Even nonhuman primates use homosexual behavior in same-sex alliances, and such alliances appear to have been key in the expanded distribution of human ancestors during the Pleistocene era. Homosexual emotion and behavior are, in part, emergent qualities of the human propensity for same-sex association. No one questions the fact that heterosexual behavior serves non-conceptive functions such as the maintenance of long-term bonds. If homosexual behavior also serves non-conceptive functions, such as the maintenance of same-sex alliances (long-term supportive relationships) that aid in resource competition and cooperative defense, homosexual behavior would be considered a positive selection. Homosexual behavior is therefore a survival strategy, supporting the propagation of a species' reproductive strategy. Given the context cited above, homosexuality survived thousands of years because it is something that has gone right. We can only hope you are not so blinded by your dogma that there's room in your narrow worldview to see homosexuality as a successful survival strategy for the species. You still have time to develop a greater sense of understanding and appreciation for sexual diversity and how it works to the advantage of many species including our own.

I can see no advantages as to how or what homosexuality offers mankind in survival, if anything it lowers its chances.
It hasn't survived in some great continuous line as you put it, it is a defect that comes to a certain percentage of humanity in every generation, like cancer.
I believe with further studies and breakthroughs in dna research we will be able to identify what defect causes people to turn gay before birth and fix it before they are born.

[italiangm]

Quote by: Anmon I can see no advantages as to how or what homosexuality offers mankind in survival, if anything it lowers its chances.

It's unfortunate that you lack the ability to see beyond your narrow worldview. And of course, there's SO MUCH evidence to support your assertion that chances for survival have been lowered by the existence of homosexuality.

Quote by: Anmon It hasn't survived in some great continuous line as you put it

Nonsense. Same-sex alliances and sexual behavior is documented throughout human and animal history. Given your statement, I find it funny that you berate others for being "obtuse".

Quote by: Anmon it is a defect that comes to a certain percentage of humanity in every generation, like cancer.

No, it is a survival tactic that nature programs into a certain percentage of most species. And surely you must know your cancer analogy is just silly since homosexuality does not grow to destroy its host. It is almost always the stressful environment homosexuals endure that make survival difficult. Fortunately, many homosexuals have acquired thicker skins to compensate for the thoughtlessness and carelessness of their peers.

Quote by: Anmon I believe with further studies and breakthroughs in dna research we will be able to identify what defect causes people to turn gay before birth and fix it before they are born.

Well, if homosexuality is the survival tactic many more enlightened people believe it is, and it is removed from our DNA, then humankind may not like the outcome of such tinkering before they actually understand the purpose homosexuality serves. However, if humanity's demise comes about from such dogmatic tinkering, the end will be well deserved.

[Anmon]

[=italiangm;494945]It's unfortunate that you lack the ability to see beyond your narrow worldview.

you mean your narrow pc view that everything about homosexuality, and its agendas being pushed must be accepted without question, can you honestly say that isn't narrow itself?

And of course, there's SO MUCH evidence to support your assertion that chances for survival have been lowered by the existence of homosexuality.

Well it stands to reason if there were only a hundred people left in the world, and half of them were gay, the chances of the human race surviving disasters would diminish as there wouldn't be as much reproduction.

Nonsense. Same-sex alliances and sexual behavior is documented throughout human and animal history. Given your statement, I find it funny that you berate others for being "obtuse".

You compare gay humans and gay animals in the same sentence, that says a lot.
And my point, was gays are only around each generation because of reproduction between heterosexuals, you need us to even exist, but we don't really need you as in your homosexuality, it has no reason to exist.

No, it is a survival tactic that nature programs into a certain percentage of most species.

what nonsense, how does having people around who don't reproduce as in have no interest in it, help humanity or any species survive?
If anything it would be the opposite.

And surely you must know your cancer analogy is just silly since homosexuality does not grow to destroy its host.

I meant cancer as in we carry you, give birth to you, but what do you do?
By and large you live and die without reproducing because of your dislike for the opposite sex, you are a dead end within yourself.

It is almost always the stressful environment homosexuals endure that make survival difficult.

Before you were trumpeting your incredible survival skills, now this?

Fortunately, many homosexuals have acquired thicker skins to compensate for the thoughtlessness and carelessness of their peers.

Yes I can see every mardigra how oppressed and miserable you guys look.(sarcasm) I rarely use it.

Well, if homosexuality is the survival tactic many more enlightened people believe it is

lol its the opposite, imagine if nearly everyone was gay, humanity's chances of survival would plummet.

and it is removed from our DNA, then humankind may not like the outcome of such tinkering before they actually understand the purpose homosexuality serves.

It doesn't serve any purpose, its a defect, that science will one day cure.

However, if humanity's demise comes about from such dogmatic tinkering, the end will be well deserved.

Why? There is more to humanity than pandering to gay rights you know.

[ShadowFox]

Just tell me one good reason why no gay person cannot get married. One good reason with actually support (meaning you back it up with evidence). Have fun trying to find one.

[Jack]

Quote by: Anmon lust more like it.

People holding hands indicates lust? That response indicates serious issues with affection and sexuality.

Quote by: Anmon You compare gay humans and gay animals in the same sentence, that says a lot.

Biologically, humans are animals. What a certain religion says about humans being somehow "special" has no relevance to a discussion of gay marriage.

It doesn't serve any purpose, its a defect, that science will one day cure.

Will it be "cured" for every other species as well?
"1,500 animal species practice homosexuality"

[italiangm]

Quote by: Anmon you mean your narrow pc view that everything about homosexuality, and its agendas being pushed must be accepted without question, can you honestly say that isn't narrow itself?

I'm sure it seems that way to you because that's all you can see with the blinders you have on.

Quote by: Anmon Well it stands to reason if there were only a hundred people left in the world, and half of them were gay, the chances of the human race surviving disasters would diminish as there wouldn't be as much reproduction.

First, your theoretically small universe of survivors and their breakdown by sexual orientation doesn't exist in today's world, now does it?

But if it did, the 50 homosexuals left would support the 50 heterosexuals so that reproduction can occur, just as this relationship exists today. Furthermore, homosexuals have supplied sperm and bore children for thousands of years in arranged or societally-reinforced relationships. Just because these relationships exist doesn't change the sexual orientation of the participants, just some parts of their behavior. Their true selves usually find its way to the surface eventually.

Quote by: Anmon You compare gay humans and gay animals in the same sentence, that says a lot.

Actually, it says a lot about your dogmatic inability to note comparisons between species. I take it you're not in any of the sciences.

Quote by: Anmon And my point, was gays are only around each generation because of reproduction between heterosexuals, you need us to even exist, but we don't really need you as in your homosexuality, it has no reason to exist.

And my point is that heterosexual survival is enhanced/secured/supported by the presence of homosexuals. Further, homosexuals don't *need* opposite sex couples to reproduce, but it seems to be the reigning paradigm at this time. However, I should point out that the phrase 'opposite sex' doesn't necessarily mean both partners are heterosexual.

Besides, once they grow into adults, homosexuals don't *need* heterosexuals as much as heterosexuals *need* homosexuals. You just can't (or don't want to) see how these mutual relationships are wired up. You simply prefer to wear your blinders and whine about the sexual proclivities of homosexuals, a subsection of the population you know little about other than what you read/see in the narrow media sources you choose for your information.

Quote by: Anmon what nonsense, how does having people around who don't reproduce as in have no interest in it, help humanity or any species survive? If anything it would be the opposite.

Tell that to every heterosexual couple who cannot or decided not to reproduce for whatever reason, yet manage to enhance humanity's survival by their other contributions. Homosexuals enhance humanity's survival by their other contributions as well.

Quote by: Anmon I meant cancer as in we carry you, give birth to you, but what do you do? By and large you live and die without reproducing because of your dislike for the opposite sex, you are a dead end within yourself.

Yet homosexuals have existed for at least as long as documented history has existed, helped to mold and shape and society, without benefit of reproduction among themselves. Is the problem that you cannot manage to wrap your brain around that fact?

Suggestion: If you're going to use analogies, I recommend you find ones that actually represent the point you're trying to make, not ones that can be taken apart and require backpedaling on your part to provide an adequate explanation.

Quote by: Anmon Before you were trumpeting your incredible survival skills, now this?

I was trumpeting how homosexuals help heterosexuals survive despite the negative environment that society forces on homosexuals. Just think of the endur