Homosexual Marriage

[Jack]

I don't think that anyone is really gay, just yearning for attention that they are otherwise uncapable of getting.

Then you know nothing of gay people. Are straight people really straight, then, according to your theory? What does "getting attention" have to do with sexual preference anyway? Do humans have sex to get attention?

[PatrickHenry]

This thread is NOT about homosexuals and their orientation, whether real or imagined.

It is about homosexuals marrying one another, and the rationale for society to legitimize it or not when it is placed as a referendum...

[Ken Carman]

Damn, 222 pages. Guess it must be fun attempting to resolve that which will probably never be.

222... Is that any kind of record here at V?

[belverron]

Quote by: Ken Carman Damn, 222 pages. Guess it must be fun attempting to resolve that which will probably never be.

... Resolved? Oh, I think it will be, and within my lifetime. Perhaps that's just naivete.

[MexicanHafty]

Quote by: belverron ... Resolved? Oh, I think it will be, and within my lifetime. Perhaps that's just naivete.

Do you honestly think that this can be resolved in our life time? I admit gays have come a long way in the community, but if the world is still judgemental on that all gays cock their hands and carry dogs in their purses, then I doubt we have a chance. There needs to be a movie just about how gays are treated, Not starring some overly flamboyant gay either. That is what is usually associated with gays. And no way in all get out will Bush let Marriage be legal. Based soulfully on his religion.
Bray

[underbear1]

Straight white men know FULL equality of LGBT people will happen with in 20 years, they've already polled younger people, who will become the majority voters in that time span, it's as powerful EVOLUTION, and it can't be stopped.I probably won't see this change, but I know it's on the way.

[jose]

Rather than get married why don´t couples set up a limited company? it would achieve the same ends and could be ¨wound up¨if necessary
gary´n´ben,inc?

[italiangm]

Quote by: jose Rather than get married why don´t couples set up a limited company? it would achieve the same ends and could be ¨wound up¨if necessary gary´n´ben,inc?

Depends what you mean by 'achieve the same ends'.

A limited company/partnership won't entitle one partner to the other's social security survivor benefits upon death, various powers-of-attorney, hospital visitation rights, etc. With the exception of the SS bennies, the rest would have to be specified in legal documents anyway, so there's no advantage.

For substantial assets (homes, financial accounts, etc) to be passed on to the other partner in a way that minimizes taxes, title to those assets must be owned by the partnership. Depending what locale the partners live in, income could be taxed twice -- first as a business, then as individuals. It'd be more efficient to create a revocable trust with pour-over wills instead to avoid probate.

[underbear1]

A state like Louisiana which derived it's laws from Napoleonic Code automaticly leaves half to a third of ANYONE'S estate to ONLY blood relatives, even married spouses are subject to this ridiculous archaic law.

[lynx991]

...and the pursuit of happiness continues.

[reynold ingram]

Let me start by stating that I have no problems with gays.Being a guy I have a lot of gay girlfriends. However I think its not right to allow gay marriages because I think it sets a bad example for the kids. There are a lot of teens claiming their gay because they think its cool and thats not right.

[italiangm]

Quote by: reynold ingram Let me start by stating that I have no problems with gays.Being a guy I have a lot of gay girlfriends.

And most likely gay boy friends as well.

Quote by: reynold ingram However I think its not right to allow gay marriages because I think it sets a bad example for the kids.

How so? Please provide details.

Quote by: reynold ingram There are a lot of teens claiming their gay because they think its cool and thats not right.

Why? If you "have no problems with gays", what difference does teens claiming they're gay make?

[Zinkovich]

There are a lot of teens claiming their gay because they think its cool and thats not right.

The true solution concerning this problem should not be repressing homosexuals' rights, but rather giving children better self-rationalisation and discernment. Peer pressure and mimicry often occurs when one has issues with the self-realisation of their own identity, when you think about it.

It is only a "natural" in the child's mind to imitate others because he lacks self-confidence at his current age because he is largely ignored or required to "fill in the lines" in endeavors that involve thought. The solution to this is to encourage more assertion and maturiy on the parts of children, rather than blind obedience to "authority".

[Kamehameha34]

Morally wrong since homosexuality is morally wrong --70-- 14.46%

This result scares me. It has the second-most amount of votes.

[The Bacon Guy]

It's because there is no rational argument against homosexual marriage. Just bigotry.

[cul]

Two people cannot be considered married just because they exchange vows or sign a piece of paper which gives them licence or allows them to marry (getting a marriage licence does NOT make you married). Nor can they be considered married even if those vows are witnessed by kith and kin. The marriage contract occurs legally only when a person who has been invested with the authority by the state declares the couple married.

For a majority of Americans who get married, this person invested with the state authority to make their marriage legal will be a member of the clergy of some recognized religion. This means that the two otherwise distinct forms of marriage are blended into one ceremony; both the sacred and the bureaucratic are combined.

This investment of state authority is in itself is a breach of the separation of church and state clause, but because it has gone on for so long, it seems completely normal and is almost never questioned.

If the religious aspect of marriage is removed from the equation and we are speaking only of civil marriages, all of the arguments used by the religious right or by those proposing a constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage, as when Dubya referenced "cultural, religious and natural" traditions, are meaningless. And without those arguments, there is simply no rational reason not to allow same-sex couples to marry in a civil ceremony to make their relationship contractually legal in order, if for no other reason, that they be eligible to fulfill their legal responsibilities and pursue whatever advantages marriages bestows on married heterosexual couples, as citizens equal under the law.

The solution then is to remove the investment of state authority from the clergy and reclarify the distinctions between the two types of marriage.

Let all those who desire to be married legally to do so through a bureaucratic state appointed agent.

Those who desire to add a layer of sacredness according to the lights of their religion may do so freely.

Nothing will change or threaten the institution of marriage at all if this were done.
As it is heterosexual people who get married in civil ceremonies, such as the Las Vegas weddings, are not seen as threatening to the institution of marriage, so why should the civil marriage ceremony of same-sex partners be considered any more of a threat?

[Arkangel]

Quote by: reynold ingram However I think its not right to allow gay marriages because I think it sets a bad example for the kids. There are a lot of teens claiming their gay because they think its cool and thats not right.

What about all the smoking, drinking and drugs. I guess they are good examples after all cancer is not going to ban you from heaven right.

Get real man, being gay is not something bad like smoking or drinking to death. It is just any other way of being. It is like your skin color or your race and they are not bad just gods creations. If you have problems with that go ask God.

If your child is gay what is so bad in that. He/she is just going to marry a he/she other than that, they will still go to college or drop out. Work like anyone else and eat and sleep like the rest of human race. Stop being an idiot and grow up.

And if you want to stop setting bad examples for kids, start fighting for stoping the spread of guns and drugs.:rolleyes:

[Jack]

It is like your skin color or your race

Good point. No one ever says, "we shouldn't encourage Blacks to enter our society because it will just be an encouragement to the kids. They'll all want to be Black 'cause it's so cool".

[namguy69]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I am wondering how the volconvo community references this debate. It seems that America, by and large, doesn't favor the concept. I think there is a very wide acceptance of homos generally in the US. They get a few swats, but overall I don't think most Americans want them treated as pariahs. Euros are likely even more tolerant. But allowing a homosexual union to labeled "marriage" apparently goes against the grain. All eleven states where the question was presented on 11/2/2004 voted to disallow homosexual marriage. Where do you stand?

Personally I feel it's wrong, however to each their own.

[JohnMK]

If you are not born homosexual or bisexual, it's probably very difficult to understand by empathy. I'm glad you're willing to to give each his own, namguy69, but there's still some kind of misunderstanding out there if you truly feel it's wrong. Sincere indifference makes much more sense, IMO.