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Chancellor · Jul 22, 2006, 01:19 pm

It amazes me how you people (sexual deviants and their supporters) are so quick to cry "hatemonger" or "homophobe" just because someone doesn't embrace homosexuality.

As far as this ongoing battle for legal rights is concerned, I don't have to agree with the notion of rights being given on the basis of someone's sexual deviancy. I do, however, expect these deviants to go about it through the people and their elected representatives (the legislatures) and not by trying to get some court to overthrow the will of the electorate by legislating from the bench. I refuse to accept anyone trying to overthrow the American people through judicial activism.

Chancellor · Jul 22, 2006, 01:27 pm

Quote:

That's right. It's about taxes ... and hardship and death and not having to anticipate every legality because the government doesn't acknowledge your relationship.

Yes, that is what it's about. There is nothing stopping two or more people from entering into a sexually deviant relationship and I can continue to think that such relationships are contrary to nature (mating is between male and female). But I'm getting tired of these deviants trying to overthrow the American people by getting courts to legislate from the bench (thereby overstepping their bounds). If these people want the legal recognitions accorded heterosexual marriage, I expect them to go through the people and their elected representatives (the legislatures).

Governments are not under any obligation to recognize relationships or grant any legal benefits to such relationships.

**Jack** · Jul 22, 2006, 01:30 pm

I say it's as reasonable to call someone who uses terms like "sexual deviants" a homophobe. Wouldn't you consider someone who said "ignorant darky" a racist? "Deviant" is a pejorative term, and those who use it should expect negative reactions from those to whom they address it.

underbear1 · Jul 22, 2006, 02:03 pm

"I refuse to accept anyone trying to overthrow the American people through judicial activism."

How convenient their memory is.............does throw Momma from the train ring a bell?

"you people" so quick to cry hatemonger

belverron · Jul 22, 2006, 06:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

Yes, that is what it's about. There is nothing stopping two or more people from entering into a sexually deviant relationship

You seem to have some difficulty with nuance and empathy.

CoffeeSaint · Jul 23, 2006, 12:49 am

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

You seem to have some difficulty with nuance and empathy.

I wouldn't say he has any difficulty with them; when you lack something completely, it doesn't give you any trouble. Sort of like the rest of us and guilt over our bigoted political stances.

belverron · Jul 23, 2006, 03:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

It amazes me how you people (sexual deviants and their supporters) are so quick to cry "hatemonger" or "homophobe" just because someone doesn't embrace homosexuality.

"You people"? Isherwood and I have stayed quite civil; I'm not quite sure to whom you refer, other than underbear1. underbear1 is obnoxious and I've been considering putting him on ignore for some time; I wouldn't consider him representative, were I you. I've hardly seen conduct fit to merit your blanket condemnation, and I resent it.

underbear1 · Jul 23, 2006, 01:24 pm

Isherwood and I have stayed quite civil
That leaves it to me to defend the LGBT community against some very ugly bigoted charges,
Lead, Follow, or Get The Hell Out Of The Way!

Perhaps you value being beloved too dearly, and the truth dragon instead is a mere wimpering puppy with it's tail between it's legs, (and unfortunately not much else there.)

underbear1 · Jul 23, 2006, 02:04 pm

beloved truth-dragon,

Just let me know at what point you will stand up with defiance, and I'll stand down.Will that be when thugs walk INTO our bar in MA with a hatchet, maiming half a dozen brothers and sisters?
Will that be when in TN a cross is burnt on a gay man's front yard and the courts DO NOTHING?
Will that be when 16 states are trying to take our children from the parents in our community?

Stonewall and White Night Riots, and ACT UP provided US rights and treatments by the strong and defiant, not the meek and beloved.

**Jack** · Jul 23, 2006, 02:52 pm

<off topic reply to previous posts>

I don't deny your right to be militant. I don't think that approach is right for everyone or in every situation.

I was very passionate and militant about a number of issues when I was younger and more optimistic. Even then I realized that in some circumstances I was undermining my own agenda by being hostile and confrontive. I learned the message is only effective if it's received by your audience. Otherwise you're just railing at the sky, which is OK, too, but not very good for convincing the masses.

I don't feel that this venue, an on-line forum open to the general public with a focus on debates, is the best place to be militant. Debate requires logic, finesse and an appreciation of words and their meanings. In my opinion, it also requires a more dispassionate approach. Passion doesn't lend itself to logical discourse. It's more the fist in the air, the hunger strike, a march.
But each to his own. That's just my explanation for my own approach.

Chancellor · Jul 25, 2006, 10:55 pm

Quote:

I say it's as reasonable to call someone who uses terms like "sexual deviants" a homophobe. Wouldn't you consider someone who said "ignorant darky" a racist? "Deviant" is a pejorative term, and those who use it should expect negative reactions from those to whom they address it.

Nonsense! Words like "homophobe" and "homophobia" are being stretched beyond their etymology (homo - meaning man (as the term homo is used in science, e.g. homo sapien) or same (as the term homo is used in other contexts, e.g. homosexual or same sex)). Now, if you want to accuse people who use such phrases as "sexual deviants" (a term I use specifcally to mean those who deviate from the sexual norm) of not accepting homosexuality, fine. But you go beyond what is reasonable when you accuse such people of being homophobes.

underbear1 · Jul 25, 2006, 10:57 pm

homobigot is much clearer than homophobe.

Chancellor · Jul 25, 2006, 10:59 pm

Quote:

"You people"? Isherwood and I have stayed quite civil; I'm not quite sure to whom you refer, other than underbear1. underbear1 is obnoxious and I've been considering putting him on ignore for some time; I wouldn't consider him representative, were I you. I've hardly seen conduct fit to merit your blanket condemnation, and I resent it.

Those to whom I was referring when I said "You people" is abundantly clear from the parenthetical phrase that followed, i.e. sexual deviants and their supporters. I was specific in how I was using the phrase. Further, in using the phrase "You people" there was no condemnation. I do, however, object to those who are "so quick to cry 'hatemonger' or 'homophobe' just because someone doesn't embrace homosexuality."

underbear1 · Jul 25, 2006, 11:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

Quote:

"You people"? Isherwood and I have stayed quite civil; I'm not quite sure to whom you refer, other than underbear1. underbear1 is obnoxious and I've been considering putting him on ignore for some time; I wouldn't consider him representative, were I you. I've hardly seen conduct fit to merit your blanket condemnation, and I resent it.

Those to whom I was referring when I said "You people" is abundantly clear from the parenthetical phrase that followed, i.e. sexual deviants and their supporters. I was specific in how I was using the phrase. Further, in using the phrase "You people" there was no condemnation. I do, however, object to those who are "so quick to cry 'hatemonger' or 'homophobe' just because someone doesn't embrace homosexuality."

It was ABSOLUTELY clear what you meant with "you people", Isherwood, Beloved Truth Dragon and I got your message loud and clear.

Chancellor · Jul 25, 2006, 11:10 pm

Quote:

homobigot is much clearer than homophobe.

Agreed.

Chancellor · Jul 25, 2006, 11:12 pm

Underbear, you are intentionally choosing to read things INTO what was posted. Frankly, I resent people presuming to tell me what my motives are.

underbear1 · Jul 25, 2006, 11:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

Underbear, you are intentionally choosing to read things INTO what was posted. Frankly, I resent people presuming to tell me what my motives are.

Ask Isherwood and Beloved Truth Dragon what impression you gave them..........honey I know your type, and had your number from your first post.Glad you like the term homobigot, you'll be hearing it A LOT!

belverron · Jul 25, 2006, 11:37 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Chancellor

Those to whom I was referring when I said "You people" is abundantly clear from the parenthetical phrase that followed, i.e. sexual deviants and their supporters.

You do understand that Isherwood and I are gay, don't you?

underbear1 · Jul 26, 2006, 12:36 pm

Doesn't it seem odd that people get SO ENGAGED and INVOLVED with relationships and bedrooms that aren't theirs, and in no way effect their grubby boring little lives, what's the deal, are they tempted?

webjedi · Aug 4, 2006, 10:47 am

1) Homosexuality is a psychological disorder

Quote:

disorder (diss-ORE-der)

In medicine, a disturbance of normal functioning of the mind or body. Disorders may be caused by genetic factors, disease, or trauma.

In fact, the very reason gays are so intent on gaining the "right" to marry is attributable to their disorder: an extreme need for acceptance.

2) "Homophobe" is a derogatory term, how would you like it if I called you a "homo"?

3) Who people can marry is a state's rights issue. If they want gay marriage in MA. it is fine with me - the more happy people there are the less likely they are to bother me. Here in FL it's not going to happen, so I could care less. I feel the same way about polygamy.

Nobody can stop you from living with another person and having sex with them. If what you want is a loving relationship and you are gay or Mormon or Muslim and your concept of marriage is different from what is accepted by the state there is no reason you have to be legally married.

I do have one strong opinion about gay rights: they should not be allowed to adopt. It is not fair to put a child in the position of having to reconcile a dilemma that our whole society is struggling to deal with.

Finally, gay men and lesbians are 2 different things (hence the term GLBT - Gay Lesbian Bi-sexual Transgendered). Treating them the same ignores the underlying causes.
[RIGHT].[/RIGHT]

View Poll Results: In my opinion, homosexual marriage is
A civil rights issue. Anyone should be able to marry anyone	349	44.97%
A distraction from the real issues of government	92	11.86%
An unacceptable redefinition of a traditional concept	79	10.18%
Morally wrong since homosexuality is morally wrong	103	13.27%
A private matter between the couple and their minister	67	8.63%
Other-I will explain below	60	7.73%
A celebration of diversity	26	3.35%
Voters: 776. You may not vote

Jul 22, 2006, 01:19 pm	#3261 (permalink) (top)
Chancellor It's my first name! Location: Buffalo, New York, USA Posts: 3,523	It amazes me how you people (sexual deviants and their supporters) are so quick to cry "hatemonger" or "homophobe" just because someone doesn't embrace homosexuality. As far as this ongoing battle for legal rights is concerned, I don't have to agree with the notion of rights being given on the basis of someone's sexual deviancy. I do, however, expect these deviants to go about it through the people and their elected representatives (the legislatures) and not by trying to get some court to overthrow the will of the electorate by legislating from the bench. I refuse to accept anyone trying to overthrow the American people through judicial activism. "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." -John Quincy Adams -

Jul 22, 2006, 01:30 pm	#3263 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,180	I say it's as reasonable to call someone who uses terms like "sexual deviants" a homophobe. Wouldn't you consider someone who said "ignorant darky" a racist? "Deviant" is a pejorative term, and those who use it should expect negative reactions from those to whom they address it. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 23, 2006, 02:52 pm	#3270 (permalink) (top)
Jack formerly Isherwood Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 14,180	<off topic reply to previous posts> I don't deny your right to be militant. I don't think that approach is right for everyone or in every situation. I was very passionate and militant about a number of issues when I was younger and more optimistic. Even then I realized that in some circumstances I was undermining my own agenda by being hostile and confrontive. I learned the message is only effective if it's received by your audience. Otherwise you're just railing at the sky, which is OK, too, but not very good for convincing the masses. I don't feel that this venue, an on-line forum open to the general public with a focus on debates, is the best place to be militant. Debate requires logic, finesse and an appreciation of words and their meanings. In my opinion, it also requires a more dispassionate approach. Passion doesn't lend itself to logical discourse. It's more the fist in the air, the hunger strike, a march. But each to his own. That's just my explanation for my own approach. The Forum Rules Radical Atheist Heathen Queer Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. (Ashleigh Brilliant)

Jul 25, 2006, 11:12 pm	#3276 (permalink) (top)
Chancellor It's my first name! Location: Buffalo, New York, USA Posts: 3,523	Underbear, you are intentionally choosing to read things INTO what was posted. Frankly, I resent people presuming to tell me what my motives are. "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." -John Quincy Adams -

Jul 22, 2006, 02:03 pm	#3264 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	"I refuse to accept anyone trying to overthrow the American people through judicial activism." How convenient their memory is.............does throw Momma from the train ring a bell? "you people" so quick to cry hatemonger

Jul 23, 2006, 01:24 pm	#3268 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	Isherwood and I have stayed quite civil That leaves it to me to defend the LGBT community against some very ugly bigoted charges, Lead, Follow, or Get The Hell Out Of The Way! Perhaps you value being beloved too dearly, and the truth dragon instead is a mere wimpering puppy with it's tail between it's legs, (and unfortunately not much else there.)

Jul 23, 2006, 02:04 pm	#3269 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	beloved truth-dragon, Just let me know at what point you will stand up with defiance, and I'll stand down.Will that be when thugs walk INTO our bar in MA with a hatchet, maiming half a dozen brothers and sisters? Will that be when in TN a cross is burnt on a gay man's front yard and the courts DO NOTHING? Will that be when 16 states are trying to take our children from the parents in our community? Stonewall and White Night Riots, and ACT UP provided US rights and treatments by the strong and defiant, not the meek and beloved.

Jul 25, 2006, 10:57 pm	#3272 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	homobigot is much clearer than homophobe.

Jul 26, 2006, 12:36 pm	#3279 (permalink) (top)
underbear1 BANNED Posts: 2,630	Doesn't it seem odd that people get SO ENGAGED and INVOLVED with relationships and bedrooms that aren't theirs, and in no way effect their grubby boring little lives, what's the deal, are they tempted?