Homosexual Marriage

[Starboy]

Perhaps there is some worthwhile message in all that crap but it is not as if there are not more worthy and less ambiguous archetypes available today. The biggest problem with Christianity, as well as most of the other supernatural religions is not all the positive messages they contain, but all the terrible messages that they contain. Allowing people to hold such traditions up as something to be aspired to when they contain such obviously awful teachings that are then taken from those traditions and held up as holy is just plain irresponsible. Christianity needs a do over desperately. But if that were to happen it wouldn't be Christianity, now would it?

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

Allowing people?

obviously awful teachings

Didn't we conclude that the "teachings" of the Bible have been manipulated? All interpretation aside, please quote directly one of Jesus' "awful teachings".

Christianity needs a do over desperately

Or maybe it's humanity and it's behavior is what is in need of a "do over"....

all that crap

That's all the -isms inside your head talking...

[Starboy]

Lou if it were such great stuff it wouldn't need a defense. It could stand on its own merits. You know the history yet still you defend it. And of course one of the things that bible is very good at is spawning all sorts of isms, including atheism. Without theism there would be no atheism. And that would suit me just fine. The whole thing is very funny. If there was a god we wouldn’t need a bible or a church or holy men. It would talk to everyone and people would answer back and nobody would think that it was insane. Even if god told a mother to bash her kids heads in with a rock. But for some reason even the devoutly religious don’t think that. They are all a bunch of dishonest hypocritical morons.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

You simply hate what you think Christianity is and will do whatever it takes to justify that hate. All this talk and no specifics....just the same old vague, clichéd one-liners about religion.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: fogus No, modern schooling has failed because it crams the wrong world view down peoples throats. For centuries the christian world view has been promoted in schools. It wasnt until Dewey that schooling failed.

It's ok to shove an agenda down children's throats just so long as it's the right agenda?

LOL!

[Starboy]

Quote by: Lou Minotti You simply hate what you think Christianity is and will do whatever it takes to justify that hate. All this talk and no specifics....just the same old vague, clichéd one-liners about religion.

I don't hate what I think Christianity is, I hate Christians for what they are. Just as I would hate Nazis for what they are or Communists for what they are or any other group that caused such trouble and misery in the name of saving us from ourselves and forming the "perfect" society.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

You just keep squeezing out the same vague clichés. It seems you've made up your mind and prefer to worship at the alter of secular humanism as opposed to all the other alters run by public relations firms. I've already fully investigated both sides of this worthless coin. Yawn....

[Starboy]

Who said anything about secular humanism? I am not sure exactly what that is other than they claim to perfer reason over faith.

Starboy

This is what The Council of Secular Humanism has to say about it:

What Is Secular Humanism? Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles: A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on fait Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions. A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general. A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it. A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us. A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility. A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

Not exactly a self help program but at least the principles espoused do not prescribe a one size fits all program.

[Lou Minotti]

Who said anything about secular humanism?

Oh, gees, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do the exact same thing you've been doing this entire thread. Secular humanism is what you espouse and all secular humanist are dumb. Just look at history. I'm certainly not making any broad, sweeping black and white statements in this post.

Wow, I think I could get the hang of this...

[Starboy]

So let me get this strait. In that tortured mind of yours because I point out the awful parts of a tradition and how it has and continues to harm society that I am a secular humanist? I do not espouse the tenants of anything other than what I have figured out on my own. What pisses me off about Christians is that it ain't good enough for them that they have their own personal god in a book but now everyone else must have such a god. I could care less if they do not have abortions or do not marry gays or do not perform stem cell research or even have clones made of themselves or whatever their god in a book tells them to do as long as they realize that their choices are their own and are not anybody else’s. But I am sure that all of this has completely escaped you and that you live in a fairy land where Christians know how to keep it to themselves and have always known how to do this.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

because I point out the awful parts of a tradition

You've pointed out the awful parts of nothing. You've merely regurgitated broad, sweeping, vague clichés. No exploration, dissection or critical discussion in sight....

I do not espouse the tenants of anything other than what I have figured out on my own

...that just so happen to be the tenants of secular humanism.

What pisses me off about Christians is that it ain't good enough for them that they have their own personal god in a book but now everyone else must have such a god.

Yeah, "they" really make your life suck don't they? "They" should definitely be your nemesis and you should defiantly waste your time coming up with even more vague ways to describe how stupid and gullible they are to be Christians as opposed to secular humanists.

But I am sure that all of this has completely escaped you and that you live in a fairy land where Christians know how to keep it to themselves and have always known how to do this.

All of "this"? Yes, all of "this" escapes my ability to take you seriously when you simply make broad, weeping, black and white, us and them allegations without content or context. You are correct.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Lou Minotti You've pointed out the awful parts of nothing. You've merely regurgitated broad, sweeping, vague clichés. No exploration, dissection or critical discussion in sight....

They have been beat to death. I find it ironic that on a thread on homosexual marriage that the point should be lost on you that one of the reasons why people are opposing such things is because of what they are taught by their religion. But excuse me. That must be a cliché.

...that just so happen to be the tenants of secular humanism.

Okay then. Do I care? No. I do not claim to be a secular humanist. And if they started acting like assholes just as the Christians have been doing so for millennia then I would definitely not call myself one.

Yeah, "they" really make your life suck don't they? "They" should definitely be your nemesis and you should defiantly waste your time coming up with even more vague ways to describe how stupid and gullible they are to be Christians as opposed to secular humanists.

They make all our lives suck. I have no idea if secular humanists make anything suck. I have not run into any secular humanists nor am I aware of any agenda they have that would prohibit me from doing anything that is legal under the constitution.

All of "this"? Yes, all of "this" escapes my ability to take you seriously when you simply make broad, weeping, black and white, us and them allegations without content or context. You are correct.

Don't take me seriously. You act as if I care.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

No, you act as if you care. Hence, your posts....You claim you are "pointing out the awful parts" but you've pointed out nothing. Not one thing. I point that fact out and you say, "oh, well, they've been beaten to death". So which is it? It can't be both....

[Starboy]

You are kinda thick Lou. I don't care if you don't take me seriously. There are plenty of awful parts in the bible that cause people to think all sorts of strange things like the rapture, that they should not get blood transfusions, that gays should not get equal treatment under the law, that a single cell at the moment of conception is a human, that the universe and everything was created in less than 10,000 years, that women are less than men, that god wants you to be rich, that god wants you to be poor, that god wants you to tell everyone about their faith, that god wants you to do it in your closet. There are hundreds if not thousands of crazy, destructive, bigoted, ignorant things that Christians in this country espouse because of what they find in the bible. Don't believe me. It is out there for anyone that would take the time to look.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

Quote by: Starboy You are kinda thick Lou. I don't care if you don't take me seriously. There are plenty of awful parts in the bible that cause people to think all sorts of strange things like the rapture, that they should not get blood transfusions, that gays should not get equal treatment under the law, that a single cell at the moment of conception is a human, that the universe and everything was created in less than 10,000 years, that women are less than men, that god wants you to be rich, that god wants you to be poor, that god wants you to tell everyone about their faith, that god wants you to do it in your closet. There are hundreds if not thousands of crazy, destructive, bigoted, ignorant things that Christians in this country espouse because of what they find in the bible. Don't believe me. It is out there for anyone that would take the time to look. Starboy

I never said there wasn't some truth to some of the things you are saying about some people, merely, your gross generalizations are laughable and seem to be based simply in hate (jealousy?). Lots of humans do and say lots of shitty things. Do they represent the core of humanity? Hardly...

[Starboy]

Lou, now who is making the gross generalizations? Your complaint is not about what I claim but how I claim it. I will say what I say the way I wish to say it. If you don't like it, well that is just too bad.

Starboy

[Lou Minotti]

Lou, now who is making the gross generalizations?

Uhhhh, you, like I just said. My complaint is about what you claim and how you claim it. And you're correct, it is simply too bad.

[Starboy]

Lou you are such a weasel. Well anyway it is all here for everyone to see.

Starboy

[Comrade]

Hey, how about we debate homosexual marriage in this thread?!

[marco_funk]

I say... better that practicing homosexuals be monogamous and committed, and have a practice (like marriage) to make it concrete, than suggest that homosexuals should rather be promiscuous than committed.