Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

italiangm · Nov 6, 2005, 05:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

Disagree. It isn't conservative. The traditional marriage of male/female is conservative going back thousands of years into the mists of prehistory. Conservatism is NOT CHANGING things.

And conservatives do so by thumbing theiir collective noses at the 14th Amendment.

belverron · Nov 6, 2005, 06:07 pm

Quote:

Quote by: italiangm

And conservatives do so by thumbing theiir collective noses at the 14th Amendment.

"No State shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

This portion of the amendment is about enforcing, not legislating, if you ask me. You're not going to find a sound Constitutional basis for gay marriage. Give up.

italiangm · Nov 6, 2005, 06:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

You're not going to find a sound Constitutional basis for gay marriage.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Quote:

Quote by: belverron

Give up.

Excuse me?

Dirty Name · Nov 6, 2005, 06:23 pm

Quote:

And conservatives do so by thumbing theiir collective noses at the 14th Amendment.

I'd love to hear your argument for same-sex marriage ("gay marriage" is really a misnomer) based on the 14th Amendment.

thatoneguy00 · Nov 7, 2005, 06:54 pm

My take on gay marriage I really don't care a Whole lot but I do believe in god, and the god meant for it to be adam and eve not adam and steve, again I am not going to condemn a homo,to his face, but I feel it is morally wrong and legally a burden to even consider. Where I used to live, my neighbors were gay, two men in their forties and I got along great with them, but one of them had two boys and one girl from a previous,obviously straight marriage, and they lived there with their gay dads. Now my take on this is that everyone at their school is going to dances as couples and whats going to happen to those boys' when there dad tells them be gay its okay, and your school bully decides to do a little bullying on them everyday.then what, oh yeah its a hate crime but if they just beat each other up just because, then its not hate its just boys being boys. Thats where I have a problem because anything that ever happens to those boys is going to be put in the media as the homos kids are in the headlines again. and twelve yerar olds don't need that. I am not calling my life normal but I didn't have to deal with that nor would I have ever wanted too.
and by the way please excuse my terminology I am very uncertain on what is socially acceptable by society anymore it just seems as if the dictionary has now become offensive.

italiangm · Nov 7, 2005, 08:05 pm

Quote:

Quote by: thatoneguy00

again I am not going to condemn a homo,to his face, but I feel it is morally wrong and legally a burden to even consider.

Legally a burden? How?

Quote:

Quote by: thatoneguy00

Where I used to live, my neighbors were gay, two men in their forties and I got along great with them, but one of them had two boys and one girl from a previous,obviously straight marriage, and they lived there with their gay dads. Now my take on this is that everyone at their school is going to dances as couples and whats going to happen to those boys' when there dad tells them be gay its okay,

Kids of gay parents aren't automatically gay, yanno. In fact, longterm studies indicate the percentage of kids raised by gay parents turn out to be straight at the same rate as kids raised by straight parents.

Quote:

Quote by: thatoneguy00

and your school bully decides to do a little bullying on them everyday.then what, oh yeah its a hate crime but if they just beat each other up just because, then its not hate its just boys being boys. Thats where I have a problem because anything that ever happens to those boys is going to be put in the media as the homos kids are in the headlines again. and twelve yerar olds don't need that.

So, are you saying gay parents are to blame because some redneck bully hates queers and takes it out on the kids? By that logic, mixed race parents should be blamed because a bully beats up on their kids because the bully hates blacks. Or jewish parents should be blamed because a bully beats up on their kids because the bully hates jews. Blame the victims, not the perpetrators. Is that what you're trying to sell here?

Dirty Name · Nov 7, 2005, 09:48 pm

Quote:

Blame the victims, not the perpetrators. Is that what you're trying to sell here?

Aw, leave him alone. He's got the right answer for the wrong reasons. If people would stop and think about this stuff - start using logic and stop using emotional appeals, the entire gay marriage movement wouldn't stand a chance.

italiangm · Nov 7, 2005, 09:52 pm

*snerk*

belverron · Nov 8, 2005, 11:50 am

Quote:

Quote by: Dirty Name

Aw, leave him alone. He's got the right answer for the wrong reasons. If people would stop and think about this stuff - start using logic and stop using emotional appeals, the entire gay marriage movement wouldn't stand a chance.

Yeah, right ....

thatoneguy00 · Nov 8, 2005, 12:41 pm

I don't want to sound shallow here but aren't kids facing enough problems these days. Look it doesn't matter why the bully is bullying, and also I don't care what statistics you throw at me. I know how I am and everyone I know is, gays get married, good do it somewhere else. I am christian and yes I do love everyone but also if my son came home one day and said dad I am gay, I would say no your not why? because in the bible it says that homosexuality will be cast away. how owuld it make you feel if your son was gay? would you let him kiss another man in your house. sorry not me.

italiangm · Nov 8, 2005, 12:51 pm

Do us all a favor. Don't have any children.

thatoneguy00 · Nov 8, 2005, 01:01 pm

oh because I have exoectations, because I have morals, be it they might not be your morals or someone elses morals, but I can't have children based on that. I want my children raised better than me, but with the same family values, is that a crime?

italiangm · Nov 8, 2005, 02:12 pm

You say that as if you have control over your child's sexual orientation.

You can restrict their activities while they're under your roof. When they leave, you can banish them from your home and drop them from your will.

However, your need for control will do the most damage. The longer your teenager fails to mature emotionally toward the gender they are attracted to, the longer it'll take for them to merge sucessfully into society.

Your "family values" will delay your child's emotional development until they can clear the cobwebs you implanted. That clearing usually doesn't occur until the 30s and 40s for most gay folks, instead of the 20s like most people.

That is, if they survive potentially dangerous sex and drug use habits they may turn to to compensate for their frustration and depression.

Aren't YOU the proud parent!

**Matt W** · Nov 8, 2005, 07:22 pm

Quote:

I am christian and yes I do love everyone but also if my son came home one day and said dad I am gay, I would say no your not

You love your son yet you'd blindly ignore his sexual orientation? Deny it, even? Sounds like casting him out to me...

thatoneguy00 · Nov 8, 2005, 09:48 pm

so basically your telling me that it would be ok to let your children run free, ANARCHY, and do what ver they want because I shoudln't hold them back from nothing. I would never and I mean never turn my own flesh and blood away, but on the same note the fact that they would be gay would only become proven to me if I had seen it with my own two eyes and thats what I would cast away from my household, if hes gay fine but not around me isn't. There will be standards of course, but just because society is ok with it does not mean I have to be. but here we go I can almost guarentee that no one who replies to this will agree and thats fine I am not cutting anyone down for that, because you are entitled to your own opinion. but everyone who does reply to this, know this, I am 23 I have no kids will someday though, maybe you know something I don't I am sure you do if you have kids, maybe it will change once I look down into their eyes for the first time. I don't know but I am sorry no one agrees with me on this issue I am sure I will here from you in another forum. good day gentleman

**Matt W** · Nov 9, 2005, 06:49 am

Quote:

if hes gay fine but not around me isn't. There will be standards of course

So you'd advocate he becomes a hypocrite around you? Lies to your face, in fact?

Sounds like double standards to me...

Quote:

so basically your telling me that it would be ok to let your children run free, ANARCHY, and do what ver they want because I shoudln't hold them back from nothing

No, I'm saying that at the end of the day it's about acknowledging that there are things you can't control as a parent - sexual orientation is one of them.

thatoneguy00 · Nov 9, 2005, 12:44 pm

matt I think you are missing my concept. If my son comes to see me and we sit and watch the illini game or the cubs game and open up a couple beers and talk sports. The fact the he is gay has nothing to do with something like that. sexual orientation does affect every aspect of life. Holiday dinner with friends and family, and if he is gay and brings a boyfriend then whatever but there still will not be and gay activity in my home. Because believe it or not they can sit and enjoy a meal and get along with everyone without touching or kissing. I have no problem with that.

italiangm · Nov 9, 2005, 01:56 pm

Sounds fair to me as long as everyone else in the room can follow the same no touching/no kissing rule. If not, all bets are off.

Zealot · Nov 9, 2005, 03:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: thatoneguy00

matt I think you are missing my concept. If my son comes to see me and we sit and watch the illini game or the cubs game and open up a couple beers and talk sports. The fact the he is gay has nothing to do with something like that. sexual orientation does affect every aspect of life. Holiday dinner with friends and family, and if he is gay and brings a boyfriend then whatever but there still will not be and gay activity in my home. Because believe it or not they can sit and enjoy a meal and get along with everyone without touching or kissing. I have no problem with that.

A thought and reason:
One of the concerns we have as parents are not only just homosexuality, but what it means and what we see. A homosexual marriage, especially men, has many possible bad effects for all of us. There is the spread of disease that can effect all of us. We see the continual facts of the normal promiscuity and reckless sexual activity.

One fact right here: An AP article by Mike Stobbe in the Press Democrat tell us that syphilis and chlamydia are on the rise. The seemingly paradoxical findings can be explained by the cyclical nature of syphilis outbreaks and a rise in risky sexual behavior among gay men, researchers said. I notice the word "gay" in many of these medical notices, we shouldn't be concerned?

Zealot

italiangm · Nov 9, 2005, 03:45 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zealot

A thought and reason:
One of the concerns we have as parents are not only just homosexuality, but what it means and what we see. A homosexual marriage, especially men, has many possible bad effects for all of us. There is the spread of disease that can effect all of us. We see the continual facts of the normal promiscuity and reckless sexual activity.

Of course, none of that behavior might be due, in part, to societal rejection of gay relationships now, could it?

My partner and I will have been in a disease-free monogamous relationship for 10 years come FEB 2006. I know at least one other member of Volconvo that has been together with his partner for a lot more than that.

So tell me... how well can your mind wrap itself around those facts given your "thought and reason" abilities, hmmm?

View Poll Results: In my opinion, homosexual marriage is
A civil rights issue. Anyone should be able to marry anyone	328	44.09%
A distraction from the real issues of government	91	12.23%
An unacceptable redefinition of a traditional concept	77	10.35%
Morally wrong since homosexuality is morally wrong	99	13.31%
A private matter between the couple and their minister	64	8.60%
Other-I will explain below	60	8.06%
A celebration of diversity	25	3.36%
Voters: 744. You may not vote

Nov 7, 2005, 06:54 pm	#2065 (permalink) (top)
thatoneguy00 The DON Posts: 256	My take on gay marriage I really don't care a Whole lot but I do believe in god, and the god meant for it to be adam and eve not adam and steve, again I am not going to condemn a homo,to his face, but I feel it is morally wrong and legally a burden to even consider. Where I used to live, my neighbors were gay, two men in their forties and I got along great with them, but one of them had two boys and one girl from a previous,obviously straight marriage, and they lived there with their gay dads. Now my take on this is that everyone at their school is going to dances as couples and whats going to happen to those boys' when there dad tells them be gay its okay, and your school bully decides to do a little bullying on them everyday.then what, oh yeah its a hate crime but if they just beat each other up just because, then its not hate its just boys being boys. Thats where I have a problem because anything that ever happens to those boys is going to be put in the media as the homos kids are in the headlines again. and twelve yerar olds don't need that. I am not calling my life normal but I didn't have to deal with that nor would I have ever wanted too. and by the way please excuse my terminology I am very uncertain on what is socially acceptable by society anymore it just seems as if the dictionary has now become offensive.

Nov 7, 2005, 09:52 pm	#2068 (permalink) (top)
italiangm Chocoholic Posts: 915	snerk

Nov 8, 2005, 12:41 pm	#2070 (permalink) (top)
thatoneguy00 The DON Posts: 256	I don't want to sound shallow here but aren't kids facing enough problems these days. Look it doesn't matter why the bully is bullying, and also I don't care what statistics you throw at me. I know how I am and everyone I know is, gays get married, good do it somewhere else. I am christian and yes I do love everyone but also if my son came home one day and said dad I am gay, I would say no your not why? because in the bible it says that homosexuality will be cast away. how owuld it make you feel if your son was gay? would you let him kiss another man in your house. sorry not me.

Nov 8, 2005, 12:51 pm	#2071 (permalink) (top)
italiangm Chocoholic Posts: 915	Do us all a favor. Don't have any children.

Nov 8, 2005, 01:01 pm	#2072 (permalink) (top)
thatoneguy00 The DON Posts: 256	oh because I have exoectations, because I have morals, be it they might not be your morals or someone elses morals, but I can't have children based on that. I want my children raised better than me, but with the same family values, is that a crime?

Nov 8, 2005, 02:12 pm	#2073 (permalink) (top)
italiangm Chocoholic Posts: 915	You say that as if you have control over your child's sexual orientation. You can restrict their activities while they're under your roof. When they leave, you can banish them from your home and drop them from your will. However, your need for control will do the most damage. The longer your teenager fails to mature emotionally toward the gender they are attracted to, the longer it'll take for them to merge sucessfully into society. Your "family values" will delay your child's emotional development until they can clear the cobwebs you implanted. That clearing usually doesn't occur until the 30s and 40s for most gay folks, instead of the 20s like most people. That is, if they survive potentially dangerous sex and drug use habits they may turn to to compensate for their frustration and depression. Aren't YOU the proud parent!

Nov 8, 2005, 09:48 pm	#2075 (permalink) (top)
thatoneguy00 The DON Posts: 256	so basically your telling me that it would be ok to let your children run free, ANARCHY, and do what ver they want because I shoudln't hold them back from nothing. I would never and I mean never turn my own flesh and blood away, but on the same note the fact that they would be gay would only become proven to me if I had seen it with my own two eyes and thats what I would cast away from my household, if hes gay fine but not around me isn't. There will be standards of course, but just because society is ok with it does not mean I have to be. but here we go I can almost guarentee that no one who replies to this will agree and thats fine I am not cutting anyone down for that, because you are entitled to your own opinion. but everyone who does reply to this, know this, I am 23 I have no kids will someday though, maybe you know something I don't I am sure you do if you have kids, maybe it will change once I look down into their eyes for the first time. I don't know but I am sorry no one agrees with me on this issue I am sure I will here from you in another forum. good day gentleman

Nov 9, 2005, 12:44 pm	#2077 (permalink) (top)
thatoneguy00 The DON Posts: 256	matt I think you are missing my concept. If my son comes to see me and we sit and watch the illini game or the cubs game and open up a couple beers and talk sports. The fact the he is gay has nothing to do with something like that. sexual orientation does affect every aspect of life. Holiday dinner with friends and family, and if he is gay and brings a boyfriend then whatever but there still will not be and gay activity in my home. Because believe it or not they can sit and enjoy a meal and get along with everyone without touching or kissing. I have no problem with that.

Nov 9, 2005, 01:56 pm	#2078 (permalink) (top)
italiangm Chocoholic Posts: 915	Sounds fair to me as long as everyone else in the room can follow the same no touching/no kissing rule. If not, all bets are off.